LOL...if "mopar" would actually sell those engines to the public. Or a WD for that matter...
What complete drivetrain package would you be interested in???
- Thread starter Johnny Mac
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LOL...if "mopar" would actually sell those engines to the public. Or a WD for that matter...
BobK
Custom Builder
I'm on board. I had a 4L80E behind the 6.0L LS in my 69 Camaro and loved it. I'm looking at doing a 5.7L Hemi swap into my 67 Dart, and I'd definitely be open to another 4L80E. Though once you buy the adapter plate, it doesn't look like it's really that much cheaper than just sticking with a 545 or NAG1.
dano
Evil Handy Man
Anything with a "one wire" hookup. People would beat your door down.
Not a fan of "cookie cutter" engines. Build to need and budget, not what the next guy has or says you have to have because it's all they know.
Not a fan of "cookie cutter" engines. Build to need and budget, not what the next guy has or says you have to have because it's all they know.
My willingness to go with the 4L80, is that i know the holley dominator ECU can control it. I also have the same option for the 4l70, which will more than handle an oem hemi. We sell them with the 525 horse LS3 all day.
my leaning on the 70 vs the 80 is sheer size. the 80 is a hoss...with A bodys being the most abundant mopar out there...not everyone is going to want to demolish their tunnel. i'm sure the 70 has some fitment issues as well, but not as much as the 80.
my resistance to the 545 or 46RH is that they are also big, so surgery is still required. So i'm really only saving the aftermarket bellhousing vs the gm trans. I also don't know how i can consciously ask a customer (who just spend 13K on a driveline package) to flip a toggle switch to activate the OD.... if i'm going with a factory style EFI hemi, and shelling out that coin, i want to be like i'm walking outside to start my 2014 ram...not my drag car where i'm constantly shifting gears, flipping switches, and staring at gauges. just my thoughts. If the mercedes 5 speeds weren't such a electronic mystery, i'd consider them too, but i think the 4L70 is going to be in any kits under 500HP. I MAY have a entry level 5.7 kit with a 727 trans, for the guys that want the old school trans. I'll also sell the dressed gen 3 with a cable drive TB and a ECM, so that way if someone has their own trans idea...then by all means! the kits with the 4l70E will more than likely sport a Gm TB, and DBW setup with pedal included. again because the dominator ECM can handle it pretty easy.
I agree 100%. I assume that is in reference to the Gen3. The ECM should control the trans and engine all in one hit. That should be as simple as plugging in the harness, and running a 12V to the ECM. Even in my position, i don't expect customers to have to mess with HP tuners, or a "build your own ECM" kit...i'll have a tune loaded in each ECM, and they will come simply awaiting a 12V signal wire, and a hot and neg to the battery. then game on.
There also appears to not be any OE style pan for the gen3 that will clear the factory K with minimal notching in the front..and clear factory steering at the rear....which leads to the milodon center sump pretty unanimously.
For the Ls3's we typically leave the stock pan and let customers handle picking their own swap pan (which we can also install)
but unless there is an OEM pan at a decent price point, that unanimously fits ABE bodies...i might as well install the MIL as part of the package, or simply not install one and let a customer pick their own.
For the Ls3's we typically leave the stock pan and let customers handle picking their own swap pan (which we can also install)
but unless there is an OEM pan at a decent price point, that unanimously fits ABE bodies...i might as well install the MIL as part of the package, or simply not install one and let a customer pick their own.
Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
A true plug and play computer is what scares most of us off jumping on the gen 3 Hemi swaps (at an affordable price of course).
The headers, oil pan and mounts are already out there........
The headers, oil pan and mounts are already out there........
I totally understand. Again, the ECM would come preloaded with a tune, so the engine would happily function as delivered. But the ECM would be unlocked if someone wanted to upgrade for higher performance in the future.
d100clubcab
Well-Known Member
Why doesn't FCA embrace the hobbysit community as GM or Ford does?
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/connect-cruise-powertrain-systems.html
Why is FCA intentionally making things difficult for us but GM is making it extremely simple for them?
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/connect-cruise-powertrain-systems.html
Why is FCA intentionally making things difficult for us but GM is making it extremely simple for them?
I asked myself that question for many years, and after several recent phone calls with mopar performances WD division head in Detroit, its simply their lack of interest, relative small size compared to gm and ford performance divisions, and lack of product. Almost nothing is in stock, their suppliers are ever changing, and they dont offer enough back end money or points up front to make it even worth wile to sell. Its gotten smaller and smaller after Daimler, and then Cerebus, and now fca. Not to mention their engine suppliers (even for the "performance book engines" are neither in house, nor part of the "performance" divisions. That's why we have to wait for the aftermarket to catch up. My goal is to supply packages such ad these, and parts to support them, at a reasonable price in line with my GM performance stuff. A tall order believe me. But I refuse to corner the market on something for my mopar enthusiasts, just to jack the price like mopar performance, or one of the many other companies making hemi swap components that are easily 3x the $ of what they should be. But believe me, im working diligently, and will have something together in the near future.
hemicop
Well-Known Member
I'm cheap. And I have no interest in the LA engines. So for me, a 3G Hemi/trans "kit" would be ideal but I can't see paying 10-12k for it. Why? It's old technology even now.
Realisitcally, the package would be probably be a 5.7 engine, pretty much stock & a trans hooked to it. Guys can find that in junkyards for less. So where is the attraction? A warranty? most guys are either going to use them as a jumping-off point for modifications, thus voiding the warranty or keep them stone-stock, so why spend the extra money for a Hemi?
Now if you want to offer 3G Hemis in "stages" of modification I can see that as a bigger draw. specially since many are gun-shy about playing with computer-controlled engines. But again, the price would have to be reasonable as you need to appeal to the "rodder" in customers, not just an engine buyer.
Realisitcally, the package would be probably be a 5.7 engine, pretty much stock & a trans hooked to it. Guys can find that in junkyards for less. So where is the attraction? A warranty? most guys are either going to use them as a jumping-off point for modifications, thus voiding the warranty or keep them stone-stock, so why spend the extra money for a Hemi?
Now if you want to offer 3G Hemis in "stages" of modification I can see that as a bigger draw. specially since many are gun-shy about playing with computer-controlled engines. But again, the price would have to be reasonable as you need to appeal to the "rodder" in customers, not just an engine buyer.
Several power levels, a warranty, and price comparable to the gm connect and cruising kits. Got it covered. Obviously if you want to go to a bone yard and source everything to complete the swap, you can do it for less, but the price quickly nickel and dimes its way up unless you score a mega deal on one with harness, ecm, and everything else. Would also offer the gen 3 without trans, so if someone wants to go another route, they are covered. Thanks for the honesty!
I agree AJ/FormS the average typical Mopar guy tends to be far removed from his GM brethren!? tight wades and /or do it your selfers!!!!! our mindset on average tends to be hands on OR learn to be hands on. especisally in the A body ranks. get into the B and especially E body ranks, and the mindset of $$$ tends to change some, just some??
and J Par sums it up well also. Chevy guys just tend to be and think different, in general. that's why I am a mopar guy. yea I 've had a few Vets decades back, sorry but I just don't fit in with them. BUT, I can mix with the high end Mopar crowd, because I understand them and their cars, and I've owned their type car decades back.
evaluating the market for this would require studying the demographics. the age group that will spend the $$ is the what 37-49 bunch??? how many of these guys are out there in our hobby? what are they interested in? the modern hemi and that goes with it or the old school SB stroker? or??
and J Par sums it up well also. Chevy guys just tend to be and think different, in general. that's why I am a mopar guy. yea I 've had a few Vets decades back, sorry but I just don't fit in with them. BUT, I can mix with the high end Mopar crowd, because I understand them and their cars, and I've owned their type car decades back.
evaluating the market for this would require studying the demographics. the age group that will spend the $$ is the what 37-49 bunch??? how many of these guys are out there in our hobby? what are they interested in? the modern hemi and that goes with it or the old school SB stroker? or??
lilnoah
Supercharged slant six with 4 speed and 8.25
I have a 64 Valiant that I would love to drop a sb and new tranny in. My problem is I would want manual or the O/D on an auto. I have a 904 and mine is a DD and lots of highway daily. I would love to get better mileage and have some pep. I was looking at turboing my slant even.
pishta
I know I'm right....
Modern Hemi (EFI or carbed) to a 727/904 so itll fit in anything from 64 on. The later O/D trans dont fit the early A's through the Dart years. On the eco/retro side, a full harness SR4-T mated to a 904 with 318 mounts, that would make any A fly @ 30mpg.
fratzog lover
Well-Known Member
A street 360 that covers a broad range is not easy, but is just what the Dr. ordered. Not a "same old" 300 hp crate, but maybe 360-375 hp that will move your car and still idle, run cool and not require constant maintenance. And a simple tf-2 equipped 904.
Im sure I can put together a t5 and t56 package. No problem there. not sure the SB paired to the OD auto will be something i will offer. The 4l70 is more compact than the OD chrysler offerings, and it's easy on the hemi's because the ECU can control it, but unfortunately the OD auto's from chrysler probably aren't something i'm going to get into. tunnel surgery, actual sources to even find those transmissions, on top of the fact that no-one makes an aftermarket ECM to control the electronic versions, and idk if i can ask someone that just shelled out big $$ for a "connect and cruise" package, to have to put a toggle switch on the dash to activate an OD...and run a combo of vac switches to make the non computer controlled versions work. Thats just my observations thus far.
Will deffinetly have a 3g and torqueflight combo. For the guy that doesn't want to chop up floor boards. Will probably have to be carbed, so the trans kickdown can operate.
On board there also. Exploring magnum vs L.A. mag cores are much more plentiful, and are factory rollers. So probably where we are headed with those
fratzog lover
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking it would be your best bet as the modern hemi option is still gonna be out of reach for a good number of enthusiasts.
^^^
Magnum Block Casting/ Machine Work/ fit & finish/ as good as any L/s...
---We all know about the heads, bla,bla,bla ---
On a Marketing note,
SEMA
Thx added for this work Sir ! Most Excellent!
Thanks again all,
my aspirations will be 2 or 3 HP levels of 3g hemi's. probably all 5.7 based due to cores.
and then pair those engines to several transmission options, or offer them by themselves. probably a 727 or 904 entry level carbed package, for the guys that don't want to hack up transmission tunnels, and would like the 3G, but don't need the OD trans.
then several higher Hp level 3g's. with EFI, paired to 4l70, a t5, or t56. with all Accompanying electronics and ECM capable of controlling the EFI and trans. so no extensive programming. a true plug and play.
Then my smallblock combo's. probably starting with an entry level 300HP magnum, paired to a 904, or t5. then a moderate 375 or 400 hp output engine/combo.
and lastly a 408 with aluminum heads and the auto's and t5 or t56 combos.
thanks for all the positive feedback. trying to cover all the bases as easy and economical as possible. having already dealt with the GM packages, i have the idea of the "flavors" of packages and engine offerings that should do well, and with all of your input i've got even more valuable feedback!
my aspirations will be 2 or 3 HP levels of 3g hemi's. probably all 5.7 based due to cores.
and then pair those engines to several transmission options, or offer them by themselves. probably a 727 or 904 entry level carbed package, for the guys that don't want to hack up transmission tunnels, and would like the 3G, but don't need the OD trans.
then several higher Hp level 3g's. with EFI, paired to 4l70, a t5, or t56. with all Accompanying electronics and ECM capable of controlling the EFI and trans. so no extensive programming. a true plug and play.
Then my smallblock combo's. probably starting with an entry level 300HP magnum, paired to a 904, or t5. then a moderate 375 or 400 hp output engine/combo.
and lastly a 408 with aluminum heads and the auto's and t5 or t56 combos.
thanks for all the positive feedback. trying to cover all the bases as easy and economical as possible. having already dealt with the GM packages, i have the idea of the "flavors" of packages and engine offerings that should do well, and with all of your input i've got even more valuable feedback!
hemicop
Well-Known Member
Keep us posted & where we can get these things!
Let the R&D begin!
moper
Well-Known Member
I went through this with a buddy. He's an older Mopar guy who's been doing GMs now for years and keeps asking me why there are not taht many late model swaps (hemis). The cores are expensive, the belt drive unusable. Electronics unuseable. Oil pan and manifolding unusable. Never mind a modern 4sp trans. Plus - most Mopar guys don't want to crosspollinate with GM transmissions. If you can get a gen3 package without a transmission in a crate and for less than $15K I'd be very surprised. And that's not the EFI or transmission. I've recently prices an LS package (525hp) with an 4L80E transmission for a prospective buyer of my Chevelle. I can get that all with the EFI, needing only headers and a fuel supply system for $16K, with a warranty. Mopars are a dying breed, and those of us who are still active don't like to mix and match. Those are your real problems. Not markup or anything else. I wish you luck, but I don't see there being the market you need to maintain any sort of margine. Mopar would have to be your loss leader.
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