64 Dart GT (273) Vert--Let the Bolt-ons Begin!

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Rhetor

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The wrenching has begun on the 1964 Dart GT Convertible 4-speed (with the original 273 recently overhauled) I bought last Friday! Took it out for the shakedown run, and wow! What a fun car!

In my excitement, I posted a thread and got some great general advice, and a few specific things.

Developed a plan of attack off that thread. Now, I am breaking it down and starting one group of repairs at a time!

In advance, I really appreciate you helping me tweak this survivor without swapping out engines . . . the 273 V8 in it was totally rebuilt just 20K miles ago . . . so I am staying with the engine in it.

First group up, Phase I?

Change Cam and Convert the 2bbl to 4bbl.

Wrestled with old rebuilt parts vs. aftermarket. My wrenching coach (a friend with a shop) has talked me into aftermarket--wants me to do Edelbrock. So here is the list are the parts I need specific suggestions for part numbers . . .

1. Which aftermarket intake?

2. Which 4bbl for that intake?

3. What specific CAM to buy in put in?

4. What headers, if I need to change?

5. What CAI will work on the setup you suggest?

6. Will I need a new linkage?

7. What am I missing on this list? (Doing a one off custom exhaust another friend will be doing for me. So, what am I missing just related to just the engine bolt-ons?)

Thanks for helping me get started completing this list so I can get this group of parts ordered!

I will attack the rest of the car in stages.

IMAG0128.jpg
 
Looks like a fun project, best of luck with it. Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade the drum brakes in the front to discs BEFORE adding more horsepower? Just a thought.....;-)
 
Tincup said:
Looks like a fun project, best of luck with it. Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade the drum brakes in the front to discs BEFORE adding more horsepower? Just a thought.....;-)
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Appreciate the thought!

Definitely on the list to do the conversion to front discs . . . but not in phase I . . . planning the front disc upgrade when I change the rear end out to 8 1/4 . . . at that time I will do disc brakes and new wheels all around . . . make sense?

Is there a reason you suggest front disc brakes before the engine bolt-ons? Something clearer line of thinking I am missing on that?

I really am looking for better answers than I am giving myself!
 
Makes sence that when you add power you will need more braking. IMHO I would like to know before I let'er hang that I will be able to bring her down safely. Nice when you can leave black stripes going up and down. Good Luck with your project
 
I'd definitly do the disc swap first. Always best to be able to stop and steer the car before being able to roast the tires (and upgrading the rear end will better enable you to put down that new found power :D )

Nice 'vert by the way! Looks sweet!
 
My 340 powered Swinger stops just fine with 4 drums. If your car won't stop you need a brake job. My brakes work great and stop in plenty of time. JMO. Sure discs are better but with what you are doing not necessary.

Oh yeah, nice car!
 
69_Dart_GT_Conv said:
I'd definitly do the disc swap first. Always best to be able to stop and steer the car before being able to roast the tires (and upgrading the rear end will better enable you to put down that new found power :D )

Nice 'vert by the way! Looks sweet!
Click to expand...

Thanks Junior, Tincup, and 69Dart GT Conv . . . safety is always an issue! I promise to only take it on a few test runs once (and if) I get the power up by the phase I bolt-ons on my list above . . . only figuring maybe gonna get another 50 hp out of that list (but I am a novice on antique cars) . . .

Phase II will be wheels, brakes, and rear end . . . . until she is powered up as much as possible and running sweet . . . I won't need the wheels, brakes, or 8 1/4 rear unless and until I get the power up.:happy11:

My next thread when phase I is done will be wheels, disc brakes, and rear end! I will be looking for advice from you guys when phase II commences!
 
homecloned said:
My 340 powered Swinger stops just fine with 4 drums. If your car won't stop you need a brake job. My brakes work great and stop in plenty of time. JMO. Sure discs are better but with what you are doing not necessary.

Oh yeah, nice car!
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Thanks honecloned, on the encouraging word. Friend had a Swinger back in the day . . . loved it!

We are thinking along the same lines about brakes . . . not doing an engine swap, just the bolt ons on the list in first post for now . . .

Any help/advice on those parts . . . anybody?
 
Rhetor said:
Appreciate the thought!

Definitely on the list to do the conversion to front discs . . . but not in phase I . . . planning the front disc upgrade when I change the rear end out to 8 1/4 . . . at that time I will do disc brakes and new wheels all around . . . make sense?

Is there a reason you suggest front disc brakes before the engine bolt-ons? Something clearer line of thinking I am missing on that?

I really am looking for better answers than I am giving myself!
Click to expand...

Safety is my reason, fast cars need good brakes, so you don't kill yourself or someone else. Drum brakes work just fine, they will stop your 3000# car from 60 in 150ft, disc brakes work better, they will stop that same car in 100ft, which would you rather have? For the price of your CAI, you could probably do your brakes.
 
Tincup said:
Safety is my reason, fast cars need good brakes, so you don't kill yourself or someone else. Drum brakes work just fine, they will stop your 3000# car from 60 in 150ft, disc brakes work better, they will stop that same car in 100ft, which would you rather have? For the price of your CAI, you could probably do your brakes.
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Appreciate the saftey advice, Tincup, (et. al.), and will be taking it . . . but I figure (for whatever a novice's like myself guess is) am only going to be able to get about 50hp or so with bolt-ons above the stock 273 2bbl on there now . . . and the drum brakes all around are basically new and work great for testing runs . . . so, discs later . . . not going to be driving it around after Phase I upgrades done . . . going to move immediately right to Phase II (disc brake upgrade, etc.) immediately after Phase I is successfully done . . . not going to be tooling around after Phase I at all--not taking a chance with anyone else's life more or less my own or my wife's . . . gonna stay safe for everybody . . . others and myself . . .

So . . . back to Phase I . . . which CAI and which CAM and which . . . ?
 
I can see the sence in upgrading to discs, however...I've driven plenty of cars with only drum brakes and never had an issue...hell that's all we had "in the day"....62 Chevy 409 4sp, 65 GTO 389 tri-power 4 sp, 64 Chevelle 327 4 sp, 47 Ford Coupe 427 4 sp, all cars with drum brakes and a little more grunt then a 273 and all stopped just fine.
 
So, back to the original questions for the 64 Dart GT Vert (stock 273 2bbl)--

Phase I help please: Change Cam and Convert the 2bbl to 4bbl.

Wrestled with old rebuilt parts vs. aftermarket. My wrenching coach (a friend with a shop) has talked me into aftermarket--wants me to do Edelbrock. So here is the list are the parts I need specific suggestions for part numbers . . .

1. Which aftermarket intake?

2. Which aftermarket 4bbl for that intake?

3. What specific CAM to buy and bolt in?

4. What headers, if I need to change?

5. What CAI will work on the setup you suggest?

6. Will I need a new linkage?

7. What am I missing for changing out the CAM and going to a 4bbl?
 
I guess the brake safety discussion kind of diverted interest in my original post.

Hopefully I will have some posts and great suggestions over the weekend.

Thanks, all!
 
1. Intake, look into a Edelbrock LD4B, or performer. Some guys really like the older LD4B because it was made for the 273/318 small port heads, but they are hard to find. The factory 4bbl intake is single plane, low rise, and heavy, so I would avoid that. On 2nd thought, if it is the orig 273 you may have to look a bit harder for a used intake because the '65 and earlier cylinder heads use a different intake bolt angle... keep an eye on the parts for sale, one will show up...

2. Get some opinions, but I would do a smaller Holley, 500-600 CFM range, anything bigger would be a waste

3. Look into comp cams mech cams, better IMHO for your little motor, I think the XE series, (i'd do the 268)

4. I don't know aout headers for the Early A's, except that "harolds" headers work good, if you ever get 'em... Do a search on FABO...

5. Guys don't really run CAI's on these cars in general, you would have to make one, MEMIKE has done it... Just get a open element K&N, or do what I do, and skip the air-cleaner all together...

6. Yes linkage lokar has I nice one, I have a spare 4bbl stock one I was gonna sell here soon if you wanna retain that factory look or save some $.

7. Gaskets (intake, exhaust, carb, valve covers, timing cover, water pump), timing chain, lifters, lube

Good luck,

I am sure other will chime in here soon too

JOE
 
BTW, there is a good deal on one in the mech parts for sale section...

JOE
 
The intake is going to be a stopper if you want new. The only new intake that will bolt on it a Offenhauser with a price tag of $500 with shipping. Pre65 need different intakes because of the bolt angle on the heads. Another option is a used 64-65 cast iron intake which is under $150 on ebay or a rare Edlebrock intake that i can't remember the part number for. What I would do is have a set of 80's 318 heads rebuild and then you can use newer intakes like the Performer.

As for the carb, EDL-1403 Edlebrock 500CFM with electric choke.

Headers, Spitfires are good, but hard to get ahold of sometimes.
 
1. Which aftermarket intake? Check the casting on the heads if you have the older heads you are limited to a Eddy D4B, $$ Offhauser, or a stock cast

2. Which aftermarket 4bbl for that intake? Eddy 600 (1405)

3. What specific CAM to buy and bolt in? Comp Cam: 20-246-4
.468 lift, 901-6 valve springs
4. What headers, if I need to change? $$$$ Dougs, Hooker,TTI and a pain unless you hunt down some Spitfires

5. What CAI will work on the setup you suggest? ?

6. Will I need a new linkage? throttle? No I fabbed one out of a 340 one I bought.

7. What am I missing for changing out the CAM and going to a 4bbl? Get the rad Ptested , do the timing chain at the same time as the CAM and lifters
__________________
1964 Dodge Dart GT Convertible (273, M4)
 
69_Dart_GT_Conv said:
I'd definitly do the disc swap first. Always best to be able to stop and steer the car before being able to roast the tires (and upgrading the rear end will better enable you to put down that new found power :D )

Nice 'vert by the way! Looks sweet!
Click to expand...

I picked up a '65 GT last summer and found on e-bay a full front rotor set-up off of a '65 Barracuda the same week. Won it for around $350. and put it all together while my 273 2bbl. was being rebuilt to commando specs. I was super pleased with the install until I ran into a roadblock to get the "perfect" power booster which took me over two months to find. What a score (and relief) that was. Any other workable (small coffee can looking instead of the correct larger sort of sideways cake looking correct one apparently do not have enough air capacity to work properly. Also it isn't easy to find the tandem master that comes on a swoop up bracket to clear the horizontal hood springs. If you've got the doe though, in Mopar mag., a company out of San Jose, CA 'MagnumForce' always advertises full modern conversions.
 
Wow! Thanks for all the help! Especially, the specific help . . . with parts identification!:cheers:

I will post pics as I repair/upgrade!

Thanks all!
 
OK . . . now I have confused myself with too many questions.

In the meantime . . . the original 2bbl carb has gone wacky . . . so . . . I am going to back up and punt . . .

I will leave it all stock for now and rebuild the 2bbl carb to make sure it is running good again with that . . . I have been futzing with the carb the two weeks I have had the car.

When I get it running right . . . then I will find the right 4 bbl intake and the right 4bbl carb . . . neither of which I need to rebuild . . . just want to do "plug and play" on the intake and 4bbl carb.

Been offered the right 65 intake--but needs work . . . I am no CNC guy. Have been offered two 65 4bbl carbs in non-working condition that I could canabalize and rebuild into one working one . . . no.

So, I am rebuilding the 2bbl original for now (having trouble finding a simple rebuild kit) to get the thing running sweet at the stock 180hp. Just so I can drive the car for now. Spring is disappearing and the car just sits there.

Then, hopefully, while I am driving the 180hp vert . . . I will run across the right ready to "bolt on and drive" intake and carb to jump up the original 273 to the Commando output of 235hp.

Baby steps . . . baby steps . . .

If anyone knows of a place to get the 2bbl carb rebuild kit; and then of a ready to bolt on intake and 4bbl carb, [lease let me know.

Thanks everyone for your patience with me.

Baby steps . . . baby steps . . .
 
I think your best bet is to post in the Parts Wanted forum for the intake and carb.(4bbl.)You,ll get responses quicker.Also welcome to the Early-A body hard to find parts club LOL.Theres a few members here that have some fairly big collections of the early stuff.Good Luck with the nice little vert.8):read2:
 
pettybludart said:
. . . welcome to the Early-A body hard to find parts club LOL.. . . 8):read2:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome . . . I am feeling the benefits (or lack thereof) of membership already! :banghead::thumbup:
 
Welcome to the early A group Rhetor. Sounds like you're excited about your Dart and for good reason. It looks like a great car. Some parts are a bit hard to find but that's the fun of it right? Just like stopping your car with 4 wheel drum brakes. Sometimes a little dicey but part of the excitement. LOL You will be pleased with the performance of a 4 barrel and intake. The Offy looks like a good intake (although expensive)http://www.summitracing.com/parts/OFY-5613/ and a 600 Edelbrock carb would be a good combo. You could hold out for a LD4 and they do pop up for sale every now and then.
Most cam manufacturers have mild cams for the small block and you can use a hydraulic or solid cam with your adjustable rocker arms but you will probably need different pushrods depending on which combo you go with. I got a Isky E-4 cam for mine which is a bit more than the stock HP-273 cam specs. I haven't heard it run yet but I'm getting closer. Keep us posted on your progress.

toolmanmike
 
toolmanmike said:
Welcome to the early A group Rhetor. Sounds like you're excited about your Dart and for good reason. It looks like a great car. Some parts are a bit hard to find but that's the fun of it right? Just like stopping your car with 4 wheel drum brakes. Sometimes a little dicey but part of the excitement. LOL You will be pleased with the performance of a 4 barrel and intake. The Offy looks like a good intake (although expensive)http://www.summitracing.com/parts/OFY-5613/ and a 600 Edelbrock carb would be a good combo. You could hold out for a LD4 and they do pop up for sale every now and then.
Most cam manufacturers have mild cams for the small block and you can use a hydraulic or solid cam with your adjustable rocker arms but you will probably need different pushrods depending on which combo you go with. I got a Isky E-4 cam for mine which is a bit more than the stock HP-273 cam specs. I haven't heard it run yet but I'm getting closer. Keep us posted on your progress.


toolmanmike
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Thanks, Toolmanmike! I really appreciate the info! Post a video with sound when you get your scoot turning over with the new cam . . . would love to hear the new lope!
 
Don't expect to much HP out of your engine. Its a low compression block. There is always a turbo. :) You said you were offered a 65 intake that needed work? What kind of work does it need?
 
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