66 hipo dart info

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Ok im ONLY 31 and im very prone to these cars as well. im not no expert but i do know the KH brakes were a 65+ option, being the only difference is the 4' pattern vrs 4' 1/2. then they went single piston. The only early cars i have seen with a 8 3/4 are 4 spd cars, one 65 for s hipo car " barracuda" it had 10'' front drums.. lol the other was a 66 dart gt 273 2bbl auto but, the dude told me directly his father worked for chrysler, and had installed the 8 3/4. I have seen 1 other 65 dart convert with a 8 3/4, but again i think this was a later added option. I do think SOME of the early hipo cars came from factory with 8 3/4 but only with 4 spd, but it was not mandatory. It could be ordered anyway.
 
Ok, here's the scoop. Certainly in 1966 and I believe in 64 and 65, EVERY 273 car had 10" drum brakes or front disc/rear 10" drums (discs were not available in 64, but became available mid-year 65 from the factory, and yes I have seen a window sticker from a 65 Formula S with discs). I did own a 66 Dart GT before the Barracuda and it was a 273 two barrel car with 10" drums.

The only 66 A-body to have a standard 8-3/4 was the D/Dart. Lee's Barracuda had a 7-1/4 in it when I bought it from a friend of mine in 1980. He had broken two sets of spider gears and one axle in the five years that he had owned the car. I sheared the splines off the other axle braking from 10mph one night around midnight. At the time I had just finished parting out a 67 Rallye Dart GT that had an 8-3/4 3.23SG so I swapped that in.

Lee's Barracuda is also a factory 273 four barrel, four speed car with discs and handling package, but is NOT an "S". Generally that meant someone ordering a car which would be the most likely way to get the 8-3/4. Due to the VIN # and some knowledge of another 66 that the original owner ordered and took delivery of on Christmas eve 1965 I believe Lee's car to be an early build. I did not know much about fender tag codes or anything of that nature back then. I don't know if Lee still has the tag.
 
Here's a link to the Hamtramck website. The fender tag doesn't tell about the rear end but it does tell that the car came with disc/drum and mandatory 14" wheels (along with the engine, trans, air cleaner, and radio info). The build sheet will tell the specific codes that the car was ordered with. The Data Book on the Hamtramck website is a bit confusing as to which was a standard equipment rear axle, just the ratios listed. (next to the last box on the lower left). tmm

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1966DealershipDataBook-05.shtml
 
Ok, here's the scoop. Certainly in 1966 and I believe in 64 and 65, EVERY 273 car had 10" drum brakes or front disc/rear 10" drums (discs were not available in 64, but became available mid-year 65 from the factory, and yes I have seen a window sticker from a 65 Formula S with discs). I did own a 66 Dart GT before the Barracuda and it was a 273 two barrel car with 10" drums.

The only 66 A-body to have a standard 8-3/4 was the D/Dart. Lee's Barracuda had a 7-1/4 in it when I bought it from a friend of mine in 1980. He had broken two sets of spider gears and one axle in the five years that he had owned the car. I sheared the splines off the other axle braking from 10mph one night around midnight. At the time I had just finished parting out a 67 Rallye Dart GT that had an 8-3/4 3.23SG so I swapped that in.

Lee's Barracuda is also a factory 273 four barrel, four speed car with discs and handling package, but is NOT an "S". Generally that meant someone ordering a car which would be the most likely way to get the 8-3/4. Due to the VIN # and some knowledge of another 66 that the original owner ordered and took delivery of on Christmas eve 1965 I believe Lee's car to be an early build. I did not know much about fender tag codes or anything of that nature back then. I don't know if Lee still has the tag.


Jim, I would have to disagree on the 8 3/4 statement. Mid 65 Mamopar sent out letters to all the dealers regarding the warrenty on 7 1/4's in 4 speed cars. Owners were breaking those rears and Chrysler decided rather than keep putting 7 1/4 rears back in 4 speed cars they would replace them with 8 3/4. Mid 65 the 4 speed cars started to come standard with 4 speeds however some slipped through with 7 1/4 rears.

On the brakes, not every 273 car came with 10" brakes. Some early 65 cars slipped through with 9" brakes but by mid 65 going into the 66 models V8 cars has standard 10" brakes. I have yet to see a 64 A body V8 car with 10" brakes unless someone put them on.
 
I believe the 8-3/4 may not have been available at the beginning of the 66 model year. During the 66 model year Hot Rod magazine took two identically equipped 66 Darts (273 four barrel, 904, 7-1/4). One car was modded by the editor and the other by Dick Landy.
 
I believe the 8-3/4 may not have been available at the beginning of the 66 model year. During the 66 model year Hot Rod magazine took two identically equipped 66 Darts (273 four barrel, 904, 7-1/4). One car was modded by the editor and the other by Dick Landy.


My source raced Junior Stock with a 65 Dart 273/4 speed car. He broke his 7 1/4 and when he took it in on warrenty the dealer put in an 8 3/4 per the TSB. I would have to check with him but I'm sure he had the 8 3/4 installed in early 65. I just looked for the letter in my library and I can't find the copy he made for me. I'll get another tomorrow and post it.
 
I've heard the same story on the 66's getting 8-3/4s, but I have never seen a 66 that came from the factory with the 8-3/4 EXCEPT Dana Vincent's D/Dart. Like I said the VIN on Lee's Barracuda is early. Also, the 66 Plymouth factory service manual only lists one driveshaft length for Valiant/Barracuda. Same with the Darts.
 
I've heard the same story on the 66's getting 8-3/4s, but I have never seen a 66 that came from the factory with the 8-3/4 EXCEPT Dana Vincent's D/Dart. Like I said the VIN on Lee's Barracuda is early. Also, the 66 Plymouth factory service manual only lists one driveshaft length for Valiant/Barracuda. Same with the Darts.

Dana Vincent? NHRA would not allow a change to the 8 3/4 in 65 and only allowed it after Chrysler came out with the TSB requiring warrenty replacenments be 8 3/4 rear ends on the 4 speed cars
 
It is possible that it was only available over the counter until later in the 66 model year. Yes, Dana Vincent (we worked together in the 1980s when he bought the car).
 
It is possible that it was only available over the counter until later in the 66 model year. Yes, Dana Vincent (we worked together in the 1980s when he bought the car).


Still around?
 
Probably. I haven't seen Dana in a few years, but last I heard he still had the car. He sold his one-owner 1970 hemi Charger to fund the restoration of the D/Dart. Lee used to live fairly close to him and may know more.
 
I've done restorations on 2 66 Darts; 273-2V, 3 spd, drums, 270; 273-4V, 904, disks, GT. In the standard Chrysler catalog, the /6 and V-8 cars are listed as two separate models for ordering and production purposes. The obvious differences besides the engines are the radiator, transmission bell housing, springs, and brakes. The 273-2V I had used the same clutch as the /6.

The /6 cars got 9" brakes, the V-8 cars got ten inch brakes as standard equipment. HD brakes were available on the /6 cars which were the 10 inchers.

Disk brakes were available on both models. The master cylinder is different on the disk brake cars. It uses a slightly larger piston. I saw nothing in my research the would exclude the possibility of power brakes with any other brake options. Not saying they aren't there, but I've never seen a '66 A-body MOPAR with power disk brakes.

Both cars had 7¼" open diffs in them. Again, research indicates that the 8.75 was optional. It appears that the 4-speed cars in 1966 had 8.75s standard.

Both the /6 and V-8 models came with 13 inch wheels (except the D/Dart). The D/Dart, cars with disk brakes or GTs with the Rallye package got 14" wheels. The 14" wheels were required to clear the calipers on the disk brake cars and the Goodyear Blue Streak tires only came in 14" sizes. I've seen 4½" wide wheels on disk brake only cars and 5½" on the Rallye package cars (also Formula S Cudas).

The D/Dart was a special beast indeed. Obvious visual clues would be the Holley carburetor and Doug's headers. The factory cars had something like a 4.86:1 gear in the 8.75 diff. A factory news release concerning the D-Dart follows.

Dodge Offers "D" Stock Dart

DETROIT -- A new 275-h.p. Dodge Dart GT that meets D Stock specifications of the NHRA, AHRA and NASCAR is now in production. The "D/Dart" has a shipping weight of 2,946 pounds.

The "D/Dart" features a modified 273-cubic inch engine with a special four-barrel Holley carburetor. Other features include:

A special Camcraft camshaft (284 degrees with .495 intake and .505 exhaust), Racer Brown valve springs, a modified, full-breathing intake manifold, a low-restriction air cleaner, and a Weber clutch. Other standard items are: a heavy-duty 4.86:1 Sure-Grip 8-3/4 inch rear axle, free-flow exhaust headers by Doug of California, a four-speed manual transmission, heavy-duty suspension, and 6.95x14 B.S.W. tires.

The "D/Darts" are regular production line automobiles.

Additionally certain, basic service parts will be available through the Chrysler Parts Division, so that owners of earlier Darts may convert from the 235-h.p. to the new 275-h.p. version of the 273 V-8 engine.

The "D/Dart" has been certified by the sanctioning agencies in the D Stock class. It is expected that this car, properly prepared, will be a top contender.

A high idle speed minimizes roughness, a high numerical axle ratio is used for top acceleration, the distributor is modified for quick advance, and the ignition system is designed for optimum engine output. Due to the expected use of these vehicles, no warranty coverage applies.

Those who are interested in more specific technical details on this car may contact staff engineer Dick Maxwell, Product Planning, Chrysler Corporation, 341 Massachusetts Ave., Detroit 31, Michigan. Phone 313-883-4500, ext. 3947.

In case your local Dodge dealer does not have a full list of the part numbers for these specific components you may wish to contact performance parts specialist Ray Ryder, Chrysler Parts Division, 22631 Lawrence Avenue, Centerline, Michigan. Phone 313-539-3000, ext. 7763


FWIW: The tire profile width of a 6.95-14 is closest to a 175/82-14 in the current measuring system. To get the same load carrying capacity, a 195/82-14 comes closest.



Hope this helps the discussion along.
 
Ok again all you naysayers tell my 1965 Commando barracuda 4 speed that it was not built with 9 inch brakes and 13 inch tires. It is on the build sheet! Weird car manual steering with power brakes and 9 inch drums all on the build sheet. My 66 was a 273 2 bbl and came with 10 inch drums and 14 inch tires. So 10 inch may have been standard on 66 but not 65 not sure there.
 
What I know of is that 9" brakes was standard in 1965 on all A-bodies. 10" brakes was optional. ¨

From May of 1965 8 3/4 rear end was offered by Chrysler as an option. Not sure of the reason for that.

In May of 1965 Kelsey Hayes disc brakes became an option too.
 
I believe the 8 3/4 changed in 65 from the threaded axle end to the flanged axle end that we are all familiar with. The 65's also had the ball and trunion front u joint. It would be interesting to know when that got changed also. It looks like 65 was the year to try new things. The 7 1/4 was standard but wouldn't hold up to a 4 speed so it got changed in production. The 8 3/4 looks to be standard with a 4 speed in 66. I would bet the 7 1/4 was standard with a auto in 65 and 66. The 273-4 was a engine option and didn't automaticlly come with a certain transmission, rear end or brake. The brake sizes are a different story. It doesn't look like 10" brakes were standard unless you had the #368 Rally package in 66 (which also included a front sway bar, larger torsion bars, striped 14" tires {some info says red stripe and some says blue stripe} and wider rims {5 1/2"}.
Anybody know if there was a "Rally Package " available in 65?
 
I believe the 8 3/4 changed in 65 from the threaded axle end to the flanged axle end that we are all familiar with. The 65's also had the ball and trunion front u joint. It would be interesting to know when that got changed also. It looks like 65 was the year to try new things. The 7 1/4 was standard but wouldn't hold up to a 4 speed so it got changed in production. The 8 3/4 looks to be standard with a 4 speed in 66. I would bet the 7 1/4 was standard with a auto in 65 and 66. The 273-4 was a engine option and didn't automaticlly come with a certain transmission, rear end or brake. The brake sizes are a different story. It doesn't look like 10" brakes were standard unless you had the #368 Rally package in 66 (which also included a front sway bar, larger torsion bars, striped 14" tires {some info says red stripe and some says blue stripe} and wider rims {5 1/2"}.
Anybody know if there was a "Rally Package " available in 65?
Yup my 65 has that package which is the sway bar, torsion bars etc. but 9 inch brakes and 7 1/4 with a 4 speed.
 
No 'rhyme or reason' for 1965 Mopar A-Bodies,

They were a mish-mosh of combinations when they left the factory, unless it
was 'an ordered car'.

As for the 8 3/4 rear, it was a mid-1965 addition, and was available with a 3.23 or
3.55 gear ratio.

Motor Trend (January 1965)
th
 
Ok, here's the scoop. Certainly in 1966 and I believe in 64 and 65, EVERY 273 car had 10" drum brakes or front disc/rear 10" drums (discs were not available in 64, but became available mid-year 65 from the factory, and yes I have seen a window sticker from a 65 Formula S with discs). I did own a 66 Dart GT before the Barracuda and it was a 273 two barrel car with 10" drums.

The only 66 A-body to have a standard 8-3/4 was the D/Dart. Lee's Barracuda had a 7-1/4 in it when I bought it from a friend of mine in 1980. He had broken two sets of spider gears and one axle in the five years that he had owned the car. I sheared the splines off the other axle braking from 10mph one night around midnight. At the time I had just finished parting out a 67 Rallye Dart GT that had an 8-3/4 3.23SG so I swapped that in.

Lee's Barracuda is also a factory 273 four barrel, four speed car with discs and handling package, but is NOT an "S". Generally that meant someone ordering a car which would be the most likely way to get the 8-3/4. Due to the VIN # and some knowledge of another 66 that the original owner ordered and took delivery of on Christmas eve 1965 I believe Lee's car to be an early build. I did not know much about fender tag codes or anything of that nature back then. I don't know if Lee still has the tag.

Yes, I still have the tag on the car. I decoded it many years ago using the booklets I bought from Galen Govier. I also had it decoded by Chrysler Historical earlier this year. I have all of that documentation in a file at home. They included a really bad photocopy of the build card. It's mostly unreadable. There were no surprises from the info Chrysler provided other than the name of the dealer that it was shipped to.
 
Probably. I haven't seen Dana in a few years, but last I heard he still had the car. He sold his one-owner 1970 hemi Charger to fund the restoration of the D/Dart. Lee used to live fairly close to him and may know more.

I haven't seen Dana Vincent since the late 80's/early 90's. However, his hemi heads ended up in the machine shop I worked at in the late 90's. He was getting ready to sell his Charger and took it to a shop nearby that we did work for. They removed the heads, sent them to us. I believe it was using oil and they were trying to determine where the oil was going. I had to go over to the shop with the dial bore gauge and measure the bores in the car.
 
I have to get ahold of my Long Island friends on this one.

Brodlieb Motors out of Woodmere, New York ran their Barracuda in 1965.
It was a 273/180 HP 4-Speed, and was run out at Islip Speedway, and West Hampton Drag Strip out
on Eastern Long Island, and later at New York National Speedway.

plymouth-cuda-1964a.jpg
 
Lee, what was the SPD? Also, I seem to remember you telling me that the car was originally sold in Madera? That's also where I got it and the previous owner got it in 1975.
 
New York City Transportation Department ordered up 40 'black' 1965 Valiant V-200 4-Door cars from the Plymouth Fleet Order Division.

273 4-Barrel engines, with 8 3/4" Rear-Ends, and 3.23 Sure-Grip Posi's

Several were 4-Speeds, and several were Automatics.
 
Lee, what was the SPD? Also, I seem to remember you telling me that the car was originally sold in Madera? That's also where I got it and the previous owner got it in 1975.

I have to plead ignorance here. What does SPD stand for?
 
M-Jo,

The 1966 Dodge Dart 273/235 HP cars ran in NHRA Class, and class record.

* 1966 = G/S
* 1967 = F/S........(13.47}
* 1968 = J/S........{13.14}
* 1969 = K/S........{13.12}
* 1970 = L/S
* 1971 = L/S

From what I can remember, because we ran in that class, the NHRA Record was,
 
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