Bottom End Shocker Build

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. cookietruck

    cookietruck Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    233
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Location:
    alkdfnoi
    Local Time:
    11:45 PM
    what's the process for getting good clearance if you don't line hone?
    it's all on the crank grinder?
     
  2. pittsburghracer

    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    11329
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Location:
    Freeport, PA.
    Local Time:
    12:45 AM

    Line honing isn’t how we get the right clearance. Like you said you talk to your crank grinder and he can go high or low side for you. If I need a crank ground .010 to clean it up I’ll tell him to go .011 as I like lots of clearance. You can also buy .001 under or over-bearings.
     
  3. Bodyperson

    Bodyperson Pedal to the metal FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    6,862
    Likes Received:
    9744
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Location:
    NW MONTANA
    Local Time:
    10:45 PM
    Can you shim bearings?
     
  4. gzig5

    gzig5 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,879
    Likes Received:
    2148
    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Location:
    Mequon, WI
    Local Time:
    11:45 PM
    Anything is possible, but the thickness and material used could make durability an issue. Nothing stopping you from boring it out larger and turning precision spacers and re-honing, but unless it is a rare and expensive block it isn't likely worth the effort.
     
  5. pittsburghracer

    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    11329
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Location:
    Freeport, PA.
    Local Time:
    12:45 AM

    Not this guy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 Getting closer FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      41,921
      Likes Received:
      13571
      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2005
      Location:
      New York, on a Island
      Local Time:
      12:45 AM
      I forget who it is exactly, though Hughes engines offer them, but someone makes spacers for the larger 360 mains for use with the smaller main cranks. They should take a light hone according to Hughes.

      I have never seen shims for the mains. Over and under sized bearings, yes.
       
    • 67autocross

      67autocross A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel

      Messages:
      1,572
      Likes Received:
      1030
      Joined:
      Jul 23, 2010
      Location:
      Winnipeg
      Local Time:
      11:45 PM
      I’m just going to throw the block,crank,main caps and heads in the garbage and start a new build….
       
    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 Getting closer FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      41,921
      Likes Received:
      13571
      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2005
      Location:
      New York, on a Island
      Local Time:
      12:45 AM
      :rofl::rofl::rofl:
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • pittsburghracer

        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        5,952
        Likes Received:
        11329
        Joined:
        Apr 20, 2016
        Location:
        Freeport, PA.
        Local Time:
        12:45 AM
        I’ll message you where you can dump it at no charge.
         
      • missing linc

        missing linc Loose nut behind the wheel

        Messages:
        4,309
        Likes Received:
        8102
        Joined:
        Feb 17, 2019
        Location:
        Southern Alberta Canada
        Local Time:
        10:45 PM
        I'm closer. :poke:
         
      • pittsburghracer

        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        5,952
        Likes Received:
        11329
        Joined:
        Apr 20, 2016
        Location:
        Freeport, PA.
        Local Time:
        12:45 AM

        I’m a nicer guy. Lol
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • Rat Bastid

          Rat Bastid .004 light

          Messages:
          244
          Likes Received:
          198
          Joined:
          Nov 23, 2020
          Location:
          22 The Avenue
          Local Time:
          9:45 PM

          The dyno needs to pull at least 600 rpm a second or the AG looks better than it is. 800 rpm a second is even better.
           
        • Rat Bastid

          Rat Bastid .004 light

          Messages:
          244
          Likes Received:
          198
          Joined:
          Nov 23, 2020
          Location:
          22 The Avenue
          Local Time:
          9:45 PM
          How many RPMs per second did the dyno run at?
           
        • 67autocross

          67autocross A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel

          Messages:
          1,572
          Likes Received:
          1030
          Joined:
          Jul 23, 2010
          Location:
          Winnipeg
          Local Time:
          11:45 PM
          Okay…you’ll have to give me some explanation on this
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • 512Stroker

            512Stroker We are all here because we are not all there.

            Messages:
            3,034
            Likes Received:
            2384
            Joined:
            May 30, 2016
            Location:
            Freedom, MO
            Local Time:
            11:45 PM
            The rpm rate is programed into operation perimeters by the dyno operator.
            It is the rate of rpm that the dyno allows the engine to accelerate at.
            Hope this helps
             
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • famous bob

              famous bob mopar misfit

              Messages:
              19,852
              Likes Received:
              8829
              Joined:
              Aug 14, 2011
              Location:
              okla
              Local Time:
              11:45 PM
              I saw a guy shimming bearings on an old chevy that had babbit built rods , a long long time ago, was doing it because of rattle and oil consumption , and it worked !
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • Jadaharabi

                Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                8,995
                Likes Received:
                10283
                Joined:
                Jan 8, 2016
                Location:
                Peoria, Illinois
                Local Time:
                11:45 PM
                .
                They used cigarette paper in some cases. My dad told me he had seen thin leather strapping used also.
                People were broke back then. 30-40s they used what they had.
                 
              • Rat Bastid

                Rat Bastid .004 light

                Messages:
                244
                Likes Received:
                198
                Joined:
                Nov 23, 2020
                Location:
                22 The Avenue
                Local Time:
                9:45 PM

                512 has a good start on the problem. A water brake engine dyno, like every other tool has its issues. If you don’t understand them, you get bad data. The sweep rate is controlling how fast the engine accelerates. Let’s take 300 RPM per second. You’d be hard pressed to find an engine that will RPM that slow, especially in low gear. So the dyno is now holding the engine back from what it actually does in its normal operation. I just heard Darin Morgan say in a webinar that a Pro Stock engine will RPM at 1600 RPM per second in low gear. If you test that engine at 300 RPM per second, the data will have flaws. I don’t know how the Pro Stock teams test on the dyno or how they evaluate the data if they are using slower sweep rates, but they do it. I do know of at least 3 teams that at one time had an inertia dyno that allows the engine to RPM at whatever rate it does in operation. In fact, there was a report done comparing the Revolution inertia dyno against a water brake dyno. I recall the test being 6 or 8 different intake manifolds for a circle track application. The upshot was both dyno’s gave conflicting data. What looked good on the water brake looked bad on the inertia dyno and what was good on the inertia dyno looked bad on the water brake. After a ton of dyno pulls on each intake on each dyno, they took the car to the track to test them. As I expected, the manifolds that looked the best on the water brake dyno were the slowest in the car, and the manifolds that looked the best on the inertia dyno were the best in the car. How could that be? It’s because the water brake dyno controlled the RPM that the engine accelerated. The inertia dyno allowed the engine to RPM at its natural acceleration rate. So from what I see, if you slow down the engine’s acceleration rate you will get higher horsepower numbers than if you run the test at a higher acceleration rate. In other words, if you run a test at 300 RPM per second and then test that same engine at 600 RPM per second, the 600 RPM per second tests will show LOWER horsepower numbers. I also believe that at slower acceleration rates you see things like a single plane intake manifold lose power to a dual plane, when in reality the single plane, if tested at a higher acceleration rate will should a totally different result, with the result being the single plane is just as good or better than the dual plane everywhere. And that should translate to the same result in the car. Unless you have the chassis not matched to the engine. Like not enough gear and/or converter. When I was 15 years old I was told by a guy who I had a ton of respect for and who had earned that respect with his on track performance (and his street stuff too) that the water brake dyno didn’t measure the ability of the engine to RPM. And he’s not wrong. That doesn’t mean the dyno isn’t a useful tool. You have to recognize what it does well and and what it doesn’t do. Guys who like a big number on the dyno will test at 300 RPM per second. Guys who want more factual data will speed up the acceleration rate and live with the data.
                 
              • 92b

                92b FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                161
                Likes Received:
                92
                Joined:
                Oct 25, 2013
                Location:
                Breda,Iowa
                Local Time:
                11:45 PM
                Another reason for lower numbers when sweeping at a faster rate is inertia. Unless this is corrected for somehow by the dyno. I understand that if both manifolds are compared at the same rate this does not apply.
                 
              • Rat Bastid

                Rat Bastid .004 light

                Messages:
                244
                Likes Received:
                198
                Joined:
                Nov 23, 2020
                Location:
                22 The Avenue
                Local Time:
                9:45 PM

                That is true. Slowing down the acceleration rate negates (to an extent) inertia. In the car you will see that inertia. That’s why you have to set up your dyno testing to duplicate as close as possible what happens in the car.
                 
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • 92b

                  92b FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  161
                  Likes Received:
                  92
                  Joined:
                  Oct 25, 2013
                  Location:
                  Breda,Iowa
                  Local Time:
                  11:45 PM
                  Just a thought. Would street driven heavier vehicles with lower (numerically) gear ratios and slower acceleration rates like a dual plane over a single plane?
                   
                • cookietruck

                  cookietruck Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  1,015
                  Likes Received:
                  233
                  Joined:
                  Jun 25, 2012
                  Location:
                  alkdfnoi
                  Local Time:
                  11:45 PM
                  any flow numbers on the Promaxx heads yet?
                   
                • rumblefish360

                  rumblefish360 Getting closer FABO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  41,921
                  Likes Received:
                  13571
                  Joined:
                  Jun 21, 2005
                  Location:
                  New York, on a Island
                  Local Time:
                  12:45 AM
                  Yes
                   
                • Rat Bastid

                  Rat Bastid .004 light

                  Messages:
                  244
                  Likes Received:
                  198
                  Joined:
                  Nov 23, 2020
                  Location:
                  22 The Avenue
                  Local Time:
                  9:45 PM
                   
                • 67autocross

                  67autocross A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel

                  Messages:
                  1,572
                  Likes Received:
                  1030
                  Joined:
                  Jul 23, 2010
                  Location:
                  Winnipeg
                  Local Time:
                  11:45 PM
                  I don’t have the numbers yet…saying that a few years ago when I was flowing some EQ heads there was a SBM shocker head at the shop…we flowed the it up to 500 and they were close to advertised
                   
                1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                  By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.