Can you move the engine slightly to the drivers side?
Lowering the tailshaft might help a bit.
Lowering the tailshaft might help a bit.
Engine & Tranny Installation-Dougs Headers, Poly Lock Mounts, Nothing Fits!
- Thread starter mopardude318
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I was half thinking about suggesting putting it in with the old mounts just for a looky. But Holy Hell, that's a bunch of work.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Try loosening both motor mount nuts where they go through the k-frame then do a leg press on the passenger's side header from the outside of the car and see if the engine shifts. Looks like engine is sitting too high on passenger's side. Hold tight you will get it figured out. Those a-body k-frames are sloppy. Some people get lucky and some don't. Definately get the TTI instuctions and measure that engine location:
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/PDF/II_TTI340A.pdf
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/PDF/II_TTI340A.pdf
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
ill try this sometime tomorrow. thats what my pops was suggesting..
while i was lowering it with the cherry picker, i was rocking it back and forth to let it settle on its own...so i dont see it going closer to the driver side??? the header on that side is close to the steering box as well, close, but not touching....
ill pick up some motor mounts from NAPA tomorrow and change em out. see if this helps, lotta work but im willing to do it if it fixes the issue.
both motor mount studs have been off...never was tightened down...but ill do that leg press you say to do. maybe that'll make it settle some?
Also, I have the TTI instructions. it states on 67-76 A bodies, the engine should be 5 1/4" inches from the top of the K-frame to the crank centerline...mine is 5 inches, making it go 1/4" higher would really make things worse.
and the engine is 2.5" inches closer to the passenger side framerail from the crank centerline, like TTI says where it should be...
i do appreciate all your guy's help...
-james
autoxcuda
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We (3 of us) put the headers in without the trans. That was Troy's suggustion and he's sold more TTI headers than about anyone when he was with Westoaks MP. It just gives you more freedom. My TTI's went in pretty straightforward.
And my Milodon road race pan and 73-76 spool K-member did not give me a lot of room to move the motor around with. With spool mounts, once get into the spool cradle area you can only go up and down. No twisting of the motor. And that's over an inch until you get to motor resting height.
One trick is to make the header studs only as long at they need to be and cut off only a couple thread past the nut. That gives you room to slip them in by. In the last picture the 2nd to last driver side header bolt is not tightened yet.
And my Milodon road race pan and 73-76 spool K-member did not give me a lot of room to move the motor around with. With spool mounts, once get into the spool cradle area you can only go up and down. No twisting of the motor. And that's over an inch until you get to motor resting height.
One trick is to make the header studs only as long at they need to be and cut off only a couple thread past the nut. That gives you room to slip them in by. In the last picture the 2nd to last driver side header bolt is not tightened yet.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
ok, I got some factory rubber motor mounts installed into the car. it seems that im a little worse off then before because now the driver side # 2 header tube hits the torsion bar as well as the passenger side. I lowered the transmission a touch before changing to stock engine mounts and it seemed to help a little bit. im using a polyuerthane tranny mount and its about 1/4" shorter in height than the factory rubber tranny mount....if i were to use the factory type rubber tranny mount itd be even too higher.... any thoughts??? anyone??? MAYBE switch these dougs headers for another pair? maybe just maybe i have a et that it tweaked??????? I DONT KNOW!!!
DRIVER SIDE HEADER TUBE HITS TORSION BAR
DRIVER SIDE HEADER TUBE HITS TORSION BAR
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
I had to use two shims on the passenger's side and one on the driver's side to get my engine to sit in the right location. I used the plates from some old motor mounts as shims. I also had to grind out the driver's side k-frame slot to get the engine to slide back 1/4" to clear the steering linkage.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
i dunno, if i used shims with the sock mounts, they would be the same thickness as the poly lock engine mounts without shims...im sure there are other people that were able to get these headers to fit, without all these problems....ive tried many different things, stock mounts with no shims, stock mounts with shims, ploy lock mounts with and with out shims, both tranny mounts, (the factory rubber unit it 1/4" taller than the poly unit) but the tranny needs to go even lower, then eveything will fit right, but i dont have a mount short enough.....ive tried many variations, and the headers STILL hit the damn torsion bars...
maybe i have a set of "bad" if you will, set of headers like one member had on this site, he returned them to summit got another pair, and all was good....??? maybe???
maybe i have a set of "bad" if you will, set of headers like one member had on this site, he returned them to summit got another pair, and all was good....??? maybe???
I'll bet money his headers weren't bad. He jumped the gun and beat stuff to death.
You have a bunch of non-factory stuff in there. You need to find the happy place where things line up. It take some effort sometimes.
I know you mentioned that you didn't think the engine could be moved side to side because it was tough to get in, IMO, that's just not correct. You can move them a bit from side to side once the mount stud is in the k frame.
It's gonna be tight no matter what you do, it's the way these cars are.
You have a bunch of non-factory stuff in there. You need to find the happy place where things line up. It take some effort sometimes.
I know you mentioned that you didn't think the engine could be moved side to side because it was tough to get in, IMO, that's just not correct. You can move them a bit from side to side once the mount stud is in the k frame.
It's gonna be tight no matter what you do, it's the way these cars are.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Maybe he needs to modify the slot in the k-frame like I did? Hard to say because all these cars are different. Some people just get lucky and the headers clear everything. Sounds like he is saying if the trans could sit lower everything would clear? I wonder if that would mess up the drive line angle?
UOP
Well-Known Member
Hang in there!! Once you take that first drive you'll forget about all these minor problems.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
okay, probably my headers are fine and its just my cobbled up mess. I have put alot of work into this though, ive been working on it and have tried many variations..
as of now, the only thing aftermarket are the RHS heads...i dont know if those ports are located differently than stock heads or the headers are mounted in a different position or what...i do have 1 inch torsion bars though, and my stock ones were .87"....thats a difference of .13 thousandths of an inch...were talking 4 sheets of paper in thickness here...not much difference at all......
tight i can deal with....i would love for everything to be tight, but this isnt the case,,,,it rubs/interferes/touches is what's unacceptable.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
yes, if the trans sat about 1 inch lower everything would be fine....id imagine that it would mess up the drive line angle...
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
so, any more ideas?? am i a complete idiot? LOL
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Bolt your trans in place with stock mount, remove motor mounts, and hang engine in place with an engine hoist and move it around till the headers clear. Then try and find a motor mount/shim combo that will work in the given location.
I hope you get it in soon.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
well i tried it again, still nothing. trans is bolted up, engine hanging on the hoist, lowered it down untill everything clears, not even the stock motor mount will work, there was not enough room between the motor mount and the k-frame to install the biscuit mount. the motor had to be lifted up....
i have the motor mount brackets loosly bolted to the block, all bolts are in, but just loose so the bracket can move. both mounts are like that which would allow the engine to settle where it needs to be once i slowly lower the enigne down with the hoist..still, the headers hit the torsion bar, and just slightly rub on the steering box....i honestly cant think of any other ways. ive exhausted all my other resources, dunno now...
maybe ill just go with it and let the f*%#ers rub on everything. at this point i dont give a ****....
i have the motor mount brackets loosly bolted to the block, all bolts are in, but just loose so the bracket can move. both mounts are like that which would allow the engine to settle where it needs to be once i slowly lower the enigne down with the hoist..still, the headers hit the torsion bar, and just slightly rub on the steering box....i honestly cant think of any other ways. ive exhausted all my other resources, dunno now...
maybe ill just go with it and let the f*%#ers rub on everything. at this point i dont give a ****....
Have you tried it with your old torsion bars?
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
So motor has to sit lower then the mounts allow before everything clears?
1970Duster
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time to just throw on some 340 manifolds and call it good
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Or go custom motor mount brackets. This looks like a very unusual case here for sure.
pettybludart
Well-Known Member
Yep,might have to get some solid mounts made up(thinner).Sucks but you got do what ya gotta do.Good luck.
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
no i havent, i dont have them anymore, but there are guys on this site with dougs/tti headers that have huge 1"- plus torsion bars and have no problems
yes that is correct
im thinking this would be a viable option. i would love to have a set of HP 340 manifolds.
it is absolutely an unusual case...i am certain i have the motor positioned in the proper place...
thanks scott. My friend is coming over thursday and were gonna see what our options are...if i wanna cut and reweld some things on the headers, make a custom motor mount, or try my TTI headers that ive been saving for my dart...
dodge freak
Well-Known Member
you know i got rid of my headers and went with the 340 hp manifold, yes i did notice some power loss but more so winding through the gears, for a quick blast--3--4 seconds, power seemed closer to headers--and it does not have mandal bent tubing--which TTI sells.
now my headers were just cheap 1 5/8 headmens, not your big port headers--those are cool, if they fit, lol
now my headers were just cheap 1 5/8 headmens, not your big port headers--those are cool, if they fit, lol
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Would be interesting to see if the TTIs would fit. I bet some custom motor mount brackets or a mod to the k-frame to get the engine where the headers want it to be would work. Did you note how much lower engine needs to go compared to TTI specs? Is it 1/4", 1/2", 1" lower? If its not that much custom mount brackets or modify the brackets you have would probably do the trick. I would try and run some rubber mounts if its a street car.
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