MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
It'll be an oil burning sob with that route.
That's a re ring, not a rebuild, for lower mile type re fresh deals. This thing needs a bore and hone, not a bandaid.
Oh NO!! not another small block build
- Thread starter Princess Valiant
- Start date
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That's a re ring, not a rebuild, for lower mile type re fresh deals. This thing needs a bore and hone, not a bandaid.
Nice. I like those organizer trays!
Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
Great thread, Rani.
I always take it with a grain of salt when someone says anything is ''rebuilt'', especially engines.
You definitely made the right call by opening it up and seeing what it was like inside.
What's the plan for the rest of the build?
Of course measuring everything is in order and go from there, but now would be a good time to put in some higher compression pistons with an overbore if you aren't totally budget poor.
At a minimum, you are looking at rings, rod, main, and cam bearings, timing chain, gaskets, frost plugs, an oil pump, a good clean up, and deglazing the cylinders with a dingle ball hone.
What i think happened here was a person changed what was obviously wrong and did a valve grind and a cam change and slapped it back together calling it rebuilt.
When you get it back together, at least you'll know what you have.
Good luck, and i'm looking forward to future posts!
I always take it with a grain of salt when someone says anything is ''rebuilt'', especially engines.
You definitely made the right call by opening it up and seeing what it was like inside.
What's the plan for the rest of the build?
Of course measuring everything is in order and go from there, but now would be a good time to put in some higher compression pistons with an overbore if you aren't totally budget poor.
At a minimum, you are looking at rings, rod, main, and cam bearings, timing chain, gaskets, frost plugs, an oil pump, a good clean up, and deglazing the cylinders with a dingle ball hone.
What i think happened here was a person changed what was obviously wrong and did a valve grind and a cam change and slapped it back together calling it rebuilt.
When you get it back together, at least you'll know what you have.
Good luck, and i'm looking forward to future posts!
dano
Evil Handy Man
I like taller engine stands. One you get assembling and hunkering half ***'d over it does a number on your back. Some anti fatigue mats and a drip pan under the ening help too.
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Rani try and get the Durabond performance cam bearings. These are made better!! Not the soft babbitt that eventually will flake like original type cam bearings. The Durabond are the ones to get. A little higher priced but well worth it.
I have never seen a rebuilt engine that was worth buying. Engines are like spouses, the best ones are virgins. No one has messed them up. You can hone with torque plates just enough to round and straighten the bores if there is almost no wear. I'm talking a real hone, Sunnen, but you also have to seal the rings to the piston. Most shops will not bother honing without new pistons. Chrysler, and forged pistons are usually good enough to reuse if the engine looks like it had regular maintenance. Don't try this with Chevy or cheap aftermarket cast pistons. Plan to replicate at least OEM HP 360, Double roller timing chain, oiling bolt, windage tray, high pressure oil pump spring and all. Use Brass freeze plugs.
Get a 4" wire wheel on a drill and clean up the gasket surfaces, like the head gasket, timing chain gasket, etc....
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
good call on pulling that 'rebuilt' engine apart. Anybody who knows a whit about rebuilding an engine, doesn't dole out the silicone rubber with a trowel. The reason that cam bearing babbit material flaked off the shell is probably because of running and sitting idle with very, very dirty, contaminated oil for long periods of time. The contaminants in the oil form acids which eat at the soft bearing material.
I don't use a ball hone to remove the ridges... I use one to give a fresh surface finish to the bore, removing the ridge is a side effect....
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Rebuilt in the Sahara Desert ?
sometimes the ridge isn't a ridge, but a carbon build up. I agree with you, nothing wrong with a ball hone. We've done it to engines and never seen a failure over many years. Are there more efficient ways? Yes. But it works if your starting with decent cyl bores.
You won't see a failure with a ball hone, it just won't be as efficient or make as much power since your cylinder will not be round or straight.
Ball hones are not to bring it to size or shape, they are to scuff the bore and put the proper surface finish on it...
If the bore is straight, the ball hone is fine....
Having snuck up on round, straight bores, it is interesting to see the wear pattern on a good cylinder. I know what ball hones do and don't do. It is amazing the difference when you have little to no leak down, but with good cylinders with little wear it will run fine and not burn much oil with a ball hone.
Princess Valiant
A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
I am not sure on the plans yet but I am glad I took it down to see where I stand. There is no way it could have been run as it was.
This is going to be a street car.
I have priced pistons and I have been pricing a few different build options.
Shopping for pistons is a bit confusing because I don't know the cc of the heads yet.
As far as machine work, I seem to be in trouble because it seems all the old shops I used to use have gone out of business in the last 5 years. I am a bit shocked to find out today that my favorite machinist has past. He was an old school guy but now his old shop is left boarded up and full of weeds. The nearest shop now is a big glamour shop 2 hours away that sounds like a bunch of kids, so I am not sure about that.
This is going to be a street car.
I have priced pistons and I have been pricing a few different build options.
Shopping for pistons is a bit confusing because I don't know the cc of the heads yet.
As far as machine work, I seem to be in trouble because it seems all the old shops I used to use have gone out of business in the last 5 years. I am a bit shocked to find out today that my favorite machinist has past. He was an old school guy but now his old shop is left boarded up and full of weeds. The nearest shop now is a big glamour shop 2 hours away that sounds like a bunch of kids, so I am not sure about that.
I believe that you want these to get around 9's in compression....
Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons H116CP
You can order the complete refresh kit from Mancini and upgrade to the Speed Pro H116CP pistons as the ones in this kit are lower... You can substitute the Speed Pro for the standard pistons from the kit and just pay the difference...
Here's the kit C that includes most of what you will need:
Sealed Power Engine Rebuild Kit - 360
The pistons are made for either press fit or floating pins...
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
on the suggestion to wire brush the decks ok
but do not EVER use a lapper wheel or a scotchbright pad
that thin dust will get into everything and not even a power wash will et it all
also no WD 40 it get's down into the pits of the steel and will not come out
just use ATF or some specialty stuff on the bores depending on how long till assembly keep wiping with old clean t shirts till no grey appears then do it again
DO NOT USE SHOP RAGS- EVER
cheers
but do not EVER use a lapper wheel or a scotchbright pad
that thin dust will get into everything and not even a power wash will et it all
also no WD 40 it get's down into the pits of the steel and will not come out
just use ATF or some specialty stuff on the bores depending on how long till assembly keep wiping with old clean t shirts till no grey appears then do it again
DO NOT USE SHOP RAGS- EVER
cheers
dano
Evil Handy Man
We've bought a lot of Engine kits from Northern Auto parts, clear back into the 90's. If you don't see what you want call and they will build you a kit.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Cam bearings aren't put under the same loads as rod and main bearings so they aren't as critical to have perfect, they basically just hold the cam in place, plus the cam only turns half the speed of the crankshaft so that's maximum 3000-3500 RPM depending on how high you rev the engine. They're also a pain to install and oftentimes need some massaging so that the camshaft can rotate freely. I had new cam bearings put in a 360 block but when I went to install the cam it wouldn't seat all the way and was very hard to turn, I had to take the block back to the machine shop and they fixed it up (for free).
There's one cam bearing in my 5.9L block that looks kinda like that but not quite as bad, probably just gonna leave it. Looking at your engine I'm much more concerned by the RTV on the head gaskets and the nasty leftover oil, I don't think it was run at all after the "rebuild" hence the empty oil filter which is probably a good thing, it would have torn itself up pretty quickly.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
OP: Use 72-73 cc's as your chamber volume to get started on calculations for piston selection. H116CP will get up in the high 9's for static CR with standard Felpro head gaskets. H405's will put you around 9.
Know that not removing the ridge can be problematic... fresh rings have been known to break on a ridge when the rings move up a few thousandths higher in the new assembly versus in the worn engine, due to new bearings and rings. It may not happen often but it has. And if pistons/rods get swapped around, then that possibility increases due to variations in rod lengths, etc.
I may be in the same boat as you soon on the local machinists. One just retired a few months ago locally.
Know that not removing the ridge can be problematic... fresh rings have been known to break on a ridge when the rings move up a few thousandths higher in the new assembly versus in the worn engine, due to new bearings and rings. It may not happen often but it has. And if pistons/rods get swapped around, then that possibility increases due to variations in rod lengths, etc.
I may be in the same boat as you soon on the local machinists. One just retired a few months ago locally.
Princess Valiant
A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
I can say I know what are talking about because I have been installing cam bearings for people because I have a cam bearing tool. I had a bearing tool that I had tuned in that got it right on the first shot. Then dumbass me loaned it out and never saw it again. You might remember that
Dont loan out your tools
Since then I have become the one a lot of people come to for cam bearings, my bearing tool already paid itself off and then some
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
I watched an idiot 'head tech' at shop scotch bright a intake head surface..... assembled it and flattened and ate the cam lobes.
Short cuts always cut you in some way.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Good to know, does that count for ANY type of Scotch Brite pads or just certain types?
@Rainy Day Auto that's pretty cool you made yourself a cam bearing tool, maybe I ought to make one now lol
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Round, burgundy color on an air dremel.
Chunk flew off...Small, but really did a number.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
what in my post did you not understand?
scotchbright is made of hard abrasive small stuff that gets everywhere and is extremely hard to get rid of
It will also leave your surfaces non flat
scotchbright is made of hard abrasive small stuff that gets everywhere and is extremely hard to get rid of
It will also leave your surfaces non flat
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