nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I personally don't consider a cylinder with a ridge that you feel with a fingernail as 'low wear'.
Oh NO!! not another small block build
- Thread starter Princess Valiant
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Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
ridge has to go then hone why does this need discussion
famous bob
mopar misfit
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this
I think he was agreeing with you and commented on someone that did just that and the engine failed
That's a good one!!
There's nothing wrong with a ball hone. If there was, they wouldn't be made. The key is knowing when and when NOT to use them. Where to draw the line. It's actually not very common to get away with "proper" clearances using a ball hone. Actual good standard bore LA blocks are getting more rare everyday. The Magnums not so much. I have seen a lot of those still have cross hatch in the cylinders and have little to no taper or out of round. The later engines are much better fodder for a re-ring. That's not to say an older engine cannot be done. They can, but if you want it to last any length of time at all, it better be in very good condition.
Is the ridge iron or carbon? If you can feel it, it is worn .010 on one side, the wear is not even, not a candidate for a ball hone. I have not had or used a ball hone in decades. I have real dial bore gages, a Sunnen hone, and torque plates for anything I might rebuild including a Neon 2.0.
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Cost effective... build it "clevite stock" @.020, no balance to me$$ with. All factory weight pistons. Find out chamber cc and mill for around 8.8 static compression.Figure if you're using manifolds or headers before you pick a cam. If the crank is sweet, polish and use.
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
My 360's crank was standard uncut when taken apart. Just a polish to shine it up was all she needed! Machine shop said I was crazy not to cut it. I think it was the other way around!
moper
Well-Known Member
I can't believe everything I've been doing wrong for 30+ years...lol. You guys are a trip (not in a good way...lol)
I own and use a ridge reamer, 3M scrubby discs, shop towels full of lint, a ball hone, a rigid stone hone, and I clean with WD40. While concerns about debris and "stuff" are real, it takes attention to detail and proper order of operations, and if something is missed, it's the builder's fault.
Rainy - I didn't read if the plan was a full rebuild, or a "get it running". Either could be done with this based on what I see. I've done similar with much worse - with expectations set where they need to be for each option. I don't recall is you have a dial bore gage or micrometer. If not - get them. Cheapies are fine for the work you're doing. But you're past plasti-gage in terms of knowledge and motivation. So step up. Once you have them, measure the bores and come back with how bad the ridge is, and how bad the cylinders are in terms of wear and taper.
I own and use a ridge reamer, 3M scrubby discs, shop towels full of lint, a ball hone, a rigid stone hone, and I clean with WD40. While concerns about debris and "stuff" are real, it takes attention to detail and proper order of operations, and if something is missed, it's the builder's fault.
Rainy - I didn't read if the plan was a full rebuild, or a "get it running". Either could be done with this based on what I see. I've done similar with much worse - with expectations set where they need to be for each option. I don't recall is you have a dial bore gage or micrometer. If not - get them. Cheapies are fine for the work you're doing. But you're past plasti-gage in terms of knowledge and motivation. So step up. Once you have them, measure the bores and come back with how bad the ridge is, and how bad the cylinders are in terms of wear and taper.
GM had some warranty issues with cams and bearings years back. Most all the failures had a intake manifold resealed 3- 6 months prior. The 3M Scotch Brite pads were used for cleaning the intake surfaces, and there was material in the oil filters and oil pan. They were also charging the dealers back for warranty repairs if Scotch Brite pads were used. https://gm.oemdtc.com/TSB/MC-10082814-5448.pdf
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Some people put the cart in front of the horse is all.
Princess Valiant
A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
Ok, interesting discussion. I knew I would get some good advice and some sarcasm from the bunch....I love it!
However, this engine is a bit worse shape than I hope for and would have liked.
Where I stand with it now is still no real plans till I know more so what I did is ordered a set of telescoping gauges because i gave my last set away. ( they are cheap so no biggie) i took my micrometer set out of storage from under the bed and pulled a spec manual off the shelf.
So as soon as I recieve the telescoping gauges in the mail it will be time to do some measuring and then make a plan.
So that is where I am at with it as if now
However, this engine is a bit worse shape than I hope for and would have liked.
Where I stand with it now is still no real plans till I know more so what I did is ordered a set of telescoping gauges because i gave my last set away. ( they are cheap so no biggie) i took my micrometer set out of storage from under the bed and pulled a spec manual off the shelf.
So as soon as I recieve the telescoping gauges in the mail it will be time to do some measuring and then make a plan.
So that is where I am at with it as if now
Rani, see if you can borrow or rent a ridge reamer. They work very well, and will solve the upper bore problem. I have used them many times over the years...
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed ridge reamers work wonders!! My dad has been a mechanic for 40 years + and have seen him use ridge reamers numerous times and always engines worked good for years. Never did he get a comeback. Only once and it was a fugly Furd! However, when my pops took the 460 apart several rods had turned blue from too much heat!! He later found out thru another source son of owner of 460 had been hot rodding this motor right after my dad gave car back after rebuild!! A big no no!! He immediately voided their warranty told the customer take car elsewhere. They had been very rude to my father trying to put the blame on him for blown engine!!
Back in the 80's, 90's mainly I built and restored a lot of Mopars. My engine guy was a country boy type, but a world class engine builder and sprint car driver. We never had to deal with rusty bores, just determine if too much out of round, if not, get rid of the ridge, hone,..... install new brings, rings, cam, many 383-440's were done. All ran well and lasted.
Funny part was as I got in to the late 90's and started using 400 and 440's from the late 70's instead of 60's blocks, seems like I kept finding engines with very little wear. I never did find out why. Was it better ring, better blocks ( dobt that), different gas, carburation??????
I have never had a magnum engine, but I keep reading about how little wear they have even with quite few miles. I have to assume it is due to FI ? Just a better air/fuel mixture.
RRR is right. Finding good rebuildable engine core gets harder all the time.
Funny part was as I got in to the late 90's and started using 400 and 440's from the late 70's instead of 60's blocks, seems like I kept finding engines with very little wear. I never did find out why. Was it better ring, better blocks ( dobt that), different gas, carburation??????
I have never had a magnum engine, but I keep reading about how little wear they have even with quite few miles. I have to assume it is due to FI ? Just a better air/fuel mixture.
RRR is right. Finding good rebuildable engine core gets harder all the time.
Totally agree with that.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
If you use a ridge reamer, juuuust take the ridge out and not a smidgen more. They bevel the top of the bore a bit...sort of a reverse taper that you don't want the top ring to have to deal with. (Anymore, I just fresh bore and not worry over that.)
OP, practice with those bore gauges quite a while first. I have used them for a long time but they are not simple to use AND get accuracy. The handle has to be perfectly parallel to the axis of the bore, if not, then the readings will be high. The 'tee' has to be exactly in the center of the bore, or the readings will be low.
How I get good readings is easier to show than describe. But even with care, you can't count on much better than .001" measurements, and that takes patience and practice to get that good. Good enough for stock work, finding taper and out-of-roundness.
OP, practice with those bore gauges quite a while first. I have used them for a long time but they are not simple to use AND get accuracy. The handle has to be perfectly parallel to the axis of the bore, if not, then the readings will be high. The 'tee' has to be exactly in the center of the bore, or the readings will be low.
How I get good readings is easier to show than describe. But even with care, you can't count on much better than .001" measurements, and that takes patience and practice to get that good. Good enough for stock work, finding taper and out-of-roundness.
moper
Well-Known Member
The cheapie dial bore set is under $50. That's what you need.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
When I got my telescoping gauges almost 40 years ago, there was no such thing as a cheap bore gauge. Times have changed... amazing what you can get like this, and like an inexpensive dial indicator, for the $$ now....
2.0 - 6.0" Dial Bore Gage Set
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Dang looks like I need to step up my game too and get some of these engine tools, I didn't realize they were that cheap. Definitely wouldn't hurt to check the bores in my Magnum block.
@barbee6043 a few guesses on the late '70s engines having less wear... First off they made much less power and peaked at much lower RPMs than the earlier engines so it wasn't as easy (or fun) to beat on them. Also in the '70s car companies were all trying to run leaner air/fuel mixtures to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy and this has a direct impact on bore wear, not to mention the advancement of chokes and carbs that ran the choke for a much shorter time when warming up. Richer A/F mixture = more cylinder wear due to unburned fuel washing down the oil.
@barbee6043 a few guesses on the late '70s engines having less wear... First off they made much less power and peaked at much lower RPMs than the earlier engines so it wasn't as easy (or fun) to beat on them. Also in the '70s car companies were all trying to run leaner air/fuel mixtures to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy and this has a direct impact on bore wear, not to mention the advancement of chokes and carbs that ran the choke for a much shorter time when warming up. Richer A/F mixture = more cylinder wear due to unburned fuel washing down the oil.
One thing you need to realize is Mopar block were cast with high nickel content cast iron. They really take a beating and don't wear much compared to like the small block Chevys.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Seems to me, it would take a dummy to leave any scotchbrite , or anything else from cleaning up a block , in it . I know an 18 time national record holder that uses that stuff all the time, but he dam sure cleans everything up. ------- I have too.----not records tho ! LOL
moper
Well-Known Member
^^ Yup. Ignorance or lack of attention to detail can kill anything.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
No need for scotchbright with a total rebuild
it's scotchbright with a gasket or valve job and oil in the valley that kills them- no way they get the decks flat either
I charged big bucks to fix cuz on chevies you get crap behind the cam bearings much worse than mopar
it's scotchbright with a gasket or valve job and oil in the valley that kills them- no way they get the decks flat either
I charged big bucks to fix cuz on chevies you get crap behind the cam bearings much worse than mopar
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