Starter clicks using the key, engine starts by jumpering the relay

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Righty Tighty

Righty Tighty

Blame it on the dog
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Hey guys, when I turn the ignition key, the starter clicks as if the battery is dead. But when I jumper the starter relay, the car starts. I’ve replaced the ignition switch, because before it wouldn’t start at all using the key.

I will be looking up a wiring diagram to see if I can trace the problem, but I was curious if anyone has experienced this. It’s a ‘74 Barracuda, 440 six barrel with a 727.
 
When you are jumpering the starter relay are you providing 12v to the yellow IGN 2 on the relay?




Below is based on 67 dart automatic.

74 might be wired differently


Screenshot_20230331-113956.png


If you are going from bat to sol (black line) you are bypassing the starter relay.

If you are providing 12v to the IGN 2 post blue line you are bypassing the ignition switch

The black line only proves the starter is good.

The blue line will prove the starter relay and the starter are good. (Assuming the NSS wiring is intact and functioning correctly. )


The key / NSS seems to function as you hear a click. But if the voltage at the starter relay (yellow) is low due to high resistance at the many junctions the relay might not be pulling in fully.


My gut says the starter relay is your first place to check
 
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I’m sorry, maybe I used the wrong term. What I’m doing with the starter relay is touching a screwdriver to the battery post and solenoid post on the relay. That’s what I meant when I said “jumpering.”
 
I'm going here to here, so the battery to solenoid.
fullsizeoutput_135b.jpeg


How should I provide 12V to the relay at IGN2? Jumper from the battery to that terminal? I also have a spare starter relay that I could swap in, but I'd also like to do some troubleshooting with this one.
 
Righty Tighty said:
I'm going here to here, so the battery to solenoid.
View attachment 1716071144

How should I provide 12V to the relay at IGN2? Jumper from the battery to that terminal? I also have a spare starter relay that I could swap in, but I'd also like to do some troubleshooting with this one.
Click to expand...
You need to use a test light or meter and see if that wire is getting 12v when you turn to the start position. then trace back from there
 
Off hand if you hear the relay click, the relay is likely bad. But you need to double check. Make sure that is what you are hearing. The two smallest connectors, the flag "push on" terminals are the coil (magnet) of the relay. One goes to the neutral safety switch, and should be grounded in park / neutral The other receives 12V from the key during cranking
 
It’s definitely the starter clicking. I can tell because it almost feels like the engine is trying to turn over while it’s clicking. But it doesn’t always click. Sometimes nothing happens when I turn the key.

I know I just need to put on my big boy pants and do some checking, I was curious if anyone had experienced this before. I kinda suspect a bad connection at the bulkhead, because before I changed the ignition switch, jiggling the wires under the dash would help.
 
Once the starter relay is activated, it pretty much takes the bulkhead connector out of the equation unless the relay is chattering at the same time the starter is trying to engage.
 
Righty Tighty said:
It’s definitely the starter clicking. I can tell because it almost feels like the engine is trying to turn over while it’s clicking. But it doesn’t always click. Sometimes nothing happens when I turn the key.

I know I just need to put on my big boy pants and do some checking, I was curious if anyone had experienced this before. I kinda suspect a bad connection at the bulkhead, because before I changed the ignition switch, jiggling the wires under the dash would help.
Click to expand...
You say "clicking," is it just one click, or a series?

A series of clicks or "buzz" indicates low/ bad battery, dirty battery terminals, bad cable, connections, in no particular order OR a LOOSE connection at the starter

One click could be bad starter solenoid, or starter, but that does not explain being able to crank it by jumpering.
 
MISC PICKS 050.jpg

i had the same problem with my 39 plymouth coupe so i replaced the relay and i took the old one apart and the points were were way off from contacting probably because it came from china
 
67Dart273 said:
You say "clicking," is it just one click, or a series?

A series of clicks or "buzz" indicates low/ bad battery, dirty battery terminals, bad cable, connections, in no particular order OR a LOOSE connection at the starter

One click could be bad starter solenoid, or starter, but that does not explain being able to crank it by jumpering.
Click to expand...
It’s a series of clicks, same as when a battery is dead.

I connected my meter to the solenoid post on the relay and got 0 volts with the key in the start position. I’m out of time for today, heading to the circus with the little lady.

Thanks for all the help so far, I’ll get back to it when I have some time!
 
When you use the screwdriver you are bypassing the relay.

If the relay contacts are bad then maybe you are getting just enough current flow to have the starter solenoid move

You will need to look at your wiring diagram to be sure.



Righty Tighty said:
I connected my meter to the solenoid post on the relay and got 0 volts with the key in the start position
Click to expand...
0 volts on that wire says the relay is not engaging OR the 12v to the relay to make it engage is not functioning OR the contacts in the relay are bad.
 
Thanks. As you can see, electrical work isn't my strong suit. I'm not even sure I was testing it correctly. I touched the positive lead on my meter to the solenoid post on the relay, then the negative lead to a ground, then turned the key to "start" position. Is that right?

I'll have a little time tomorrow to break out the FSM and pull up the wiring diagram. Where should I start when tracing the path? I'm thinking start at the ignition switch, go to the bulkhead, then relay?

One problem I found yesterday that may or may not be related, was the black and grey wire that goes to the ignition control module had pulled out of the bulkhead so the engine would turn over, but not start. Fixed that, car starts but I'm still bypassing the relay.
 
Last time one of my cars did this it turned out to be a bad (but looked good) ground cable between the body and the engine block.

You can check by using jumper cables between the neg post and any bolt you can get on on the block, head or an accessory mount.

It took me a while to figure this one out as it sure seemed like a dead battery or bad starter or relay.
 
Thanks, I’ll check that.

Electrical work is frustrating to me, because there seem to be so many possibilities of failure, and I never know where to start.
 
I generally like to start where I know I have proper voltage and then follow the circuit until I find a voltage drop.
 
Let's review and think here................

If you jumper the two large exposed terminals at the relay, AKA the big stud and the "square screw" and if the starter cranks the engine "normally," we know the following:

The battery, battery clamp connections, main battery cables, connections at the block ground and the starter, and the starter itself are all good

If so, it's all in the starter relay and related. Might be the relay, or a bad connection in the relay coil wiring. "The path" is: Ignition switch---twist to crank--yellow start wire--out through the bulkhead connector--EDIT(??through seat belt interlock?) -- to the flag/ push on terminal at the starter relay--through the relay coil--out on the remaining flag/ push on terminal--down the firewall--to the transmission neutral switch.

Any part of that might have a bad connection/ low voltage/ drop and of course the relay itself

One way to separate the wiring from the relay as a problem is to alligator clip a ground wire in place of the NSS wire and see if it works (BE CAREFUL it is not in gear!!)

If that changes nothing, then jumper direct battery power to the "start" terminal of the relay by pulling the yellow wire off and jumpering bat. power direct to that terminal, making sure,of course, that the NSS terminal is in fact still grounded.
 
I keep forgetting what you have..........DOES THIS HAVE the seat belt interlock and has it been bypassed? This has a lockout for the starter "crank" circuit.
 
According to his original post, he's put a 440 6 barrel in a '74 Barracuda.
 
67dart273 and I have both said the same thing here.

It is REALLY easy to identify the bad component.

A remote starter switch.

Red to battery plus.

Yellow to the propper wire on the starter relay.

Screenshot_20230401-154657.png



Screenshot_20230401-155021.png
 
^^One correction, "not" IGN2. IGN2 (brown, normally) bypassed the ballast and is a separate circuit from the "start" wire (yellow)

He has a 74, so if it has the seat belt interlock, the path is as I mentioned earlier
 
Dana67Dart said:
67dart273 and I have both said the same thing here.

It is REALLY easy to identify the bad component.

A remote starter switch.

Red to battery plus.

Yellow to the propper wire on the starter relay.

View attachment 1716071746


View attachment 1716071751
Click to expand...
I like the idea of a remote starter, thanks. I’m working today, but will get after it in the morning.
67Dart273 said:
^^One correction, "not" IGN2. IGN2 (brown, normally) bypassed the ballast and is a separate circuit from the "start" wire (yellow)

He has a 74, so if it has the seat belt interlock, the path is as I mentioned earlier
Click to expand...
The seat belt interlock has been bypassed on this car, and yes, my ignition wire is brown.
 
Start with the most likely problem. Hold the key in the crank position while moving the gearshift into neutral. If it trys to start, your linkage is out of adjustment.
 
Couple of corrections:

[1] Post #15. This engine starts up, so not a bad engine block cable-to-bat connection.
[2] A remote starter switch. You already have one, provided by Chrys. It is the starter relay. Many GM cars had NO relay, heavy solenoid current was routed through wiring harness & ign sw direct to the sol on the starter.

You need to find out what is clicking, relay or sol on starter. Then go from there.
 
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