1. toolmanmike

    toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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    It depends on where it's set at. Factory spec is a little negative. Most people run as much positive as the control arms will allow. You need to start somewhere. A good alignment shop might be the best place. They might get it on the rack and look it over and decide it needs to go to the body shop for some frame machine time. You may not get charged much for an initial check.
     
  2. kursplat

    kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    so something may have loosened up. need to remeasure everything
     
  3. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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    In your photo on post 34 it looks like the outside of the tire is flush with the outside of the lip. In my photo post 55 my tire is like 2 + inches inboard.
     
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    • MRGTX

      MRGTX Well-Known Member

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      First...this car is gorgeous. It’s worth any trouble that it will take to get it right...and this IS fixable.

      Second, I would focus on making it drivable just to get it to an alignment shop. That is going answer all of your questions.

      Assuming the whole car isn’t bent, the factors affecting your fender clearance are going to be wheel offset (too negative), tire height, and caster adjustment.

      Before you mess with any of that, check to make sure your fender brace is adjusted all the way out. There’s a slotted hole at one end of that rod that may give you a little more clearance.

      If that doesn’t do the job, pull some caster out of it. The means of adjusting that are detailed on the forums but it might be just one degree too much on one side that is causing the contact.

      What are the specs on your wheels, by the way? I’m almost certain that (as others have said) you may need more offset/less backspace. The fact that it fits on the driver’s side may actually be evidence of a problem on that side...maybe you have some screwed up negative camber over there?

      IIRC, your particular body style is one of the most restrictive in terms of fender clearance on that front corner. Look up @autoxcuda . He knows his stuff and has done some good work on making his car run some aggressive tires...but he had to trim that corner to make that happen. Your stock-ish front tires shouldn’t require that kind of mod but he may be able to help.
       
      Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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      • autoxcuda

        autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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        67-69 Barracuda’s don’t have a fender stabilizing rod in front of the tire bottom of front fender lip. Mopars with front valences typically don’t get those. Because the valence supports the fender.

        67-69 darts, Duster’s, 73-up Dart sports, Valiants, 73-Darts all don’t have front lower valences.

        I wouldn’t get too alarmed over side to side difference in clearance he showed in those pictures. Especially if the cars not aligned yet.

        Reason is, theres so many variables that can cause that. Mostly a common fender bender.

        And, if the car is not aligned yet, you really have to attempt that and ask for as much caster as possible. Go to a place that aligns older cars.

        Those older aftermarket one piece rims typically push the tire out compared to stock rims. That really kills things.

        Things that could move the tires back:

        1) Offset upper control arm bushings Moog 7103 installed for most caster. If you have stock UCA’s and non offset bushings currently. This will push the UCA back.

        2) One poly strut rod bushing per side In rear position. Thicker than rubber bushing and will push the LCA back. If you put a poly bushing in front position you may not be able to get the safety cotter pin installed.

        2a) OR adjustable lower strut rods

        3) As much caster as possible

        4) same width rims with 1/2” or greater backspace than now.

        IMHO, I’d do 1-3 first if you really like those rims.
         
        Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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        • ratvon

          ratvon Well-Known Member

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          The car was already aligned this all started when the driver side flubbed the top of the fender so I thought I would crank the lower controll arms up to get it away drive it in have it aligned the the passenger side caught!
          I think the easiest fix would to just run something like a 235/60/14 on the front
          My rims are 14x6 with 3.5 back space that should be plenty.
           
        • autoxcuda

          autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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          Yes.

          Those are tractor inter-tubes up front.
           
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          • ratvon

            ratvon Well-Known Member

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            Tractor inner tubes?
             
          • autoxcuda

            autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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            Inner tubes

            Just teasing... they have a lot of side wall.
             
          • ratvon

            ratvon Well-Known Member

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            Think something like that would look odd?
             
          • autoxcuda

            autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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            When I look at the tire comparator the 235 adds .7” to width and takes .8” off diameter.

            So split those two in half and the tire moves back .4 and out .35. And you are hitting the tire turned at an angle. So going back near the same as out cancels each other out .

            Something like 215/65/14 or 225/60/14 AND something else.

            IMHO moving the tire away 1/2” more than now is not enough to protect a new paint job like that.

            What was the caster spec from the alignment you got?

            What strut rod bushings do you have?
             
          • autoxcuda

            autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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            No.

            If you are worried about the tire being too small to fill the wheel well, paint the inside well area black.

            Right now it looks deceiving the gap between the fender lip and tire is big. The factory always painted the wells black. It helps visually.
             
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            • ratvon

              ratvon Well-Known Member

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              Never got anything from the alignment shop , they've been doing my cars for year and I never questioned it . The bushings were the poly bushings. What kind of clearance should there be up front like 2 inches?
              205 /60/14 looks better ,I used the poly bushings, didnt get anything from the alignment shop, with what I've ,I did in the past the caster isn't going to give you a whole lot. When I had the k frame out I replaced every bushing, and adjustable strut rods only give you an 1/8 th inch. There's no slop in the k frame holes like b bodies have. Every thing looks good nothing bent , I'm overlooking something it's just a matter of stepping back having patience and go through everything
              To me that's the key, process of elimination, check and recheck and patience not giving up. I dont like to just change parts I gotta know exactly why and I use all resources and input from everyone. That's what's great about these forums that we didn't have 30 years ago
               
            • autoxcuda

              autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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              The poly strut bushings like these push the lower control arm back a little vs the stock rubber ones.

              upload_2020-7-3_15-14-12.jpeg

              upload_2020-7-3_15-15-25.jpeg


              I think stock 14x6 backspacing is 4”. So your 3.5 is pushing the tire out .5” toward fender

              You need to get an alignment printout for every alignment you pay for.

              Would have to see alignment sheet and pics of each UCA cam bolt to see if there’s any more adjustment left.

              upload_2020-7-3_15-14-37.jpeg
               
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              • diymirage

                diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline

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                did I read you converted to discs up front?
                that might add to your track, and change the amount of ideal backspacing
                 
              • Dana67Dart

                Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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                IIRC front disc (KH 4 piston) adds 1/2 inch to each side outward.

                This is the back spacing of stock 5.5 x 14 steel wheels.

                IMG_20200703_185834.jpg

                Back space measured both ways.(same wheel)

                IMG_20200703_185345.jpg IMG_20200703_185312.jpg IMG_20200703_185356.jpg IMG_20200703_185327.jpg
                 
              • pomonamissel

                pomonamissel Well-Known Member

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                i made the fender braces longer to flare the bottom of the fender wheel opening a bit . helped that issue on my a bodies . those are 225/70-14's on the nose and butt . its kh disc's as well . 5.5 steels . they didn't rub or grab . DCP01191.JPG
                 
              • pomonamissel

                pomonamissel Well-Known Member

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                this duster was 205/70-14 on a 7's with ssbc disc's . DSC00370.JPG
                 
              • Dana67Dart

                Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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                Your photo looks like the outside of the widest part of the tire is outside of the wheel well, which makes me go back to too little back spacing.

                20200629_170348.jpg
                Post a photo with the wheels pointing straight ahead, put a straight edge on the widest part of the tire up and down and show the gap between the top of the fender lip and the straight edge.
                 
              • MerlinsMopar

                MerlinsMopar FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Too big! Period. Backspace is wrong. Rims need to be right. Cut the fenders and it'll work fine .lol..
                All the input will make it right!
                 
              • autoxcuda

                autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                Your Dart and Duster have braces at the bottom of the front fender dogleg. Without them the dogleg would flap around down the front.

                Barracuda and 70-72 Dart have lower front valences that the front fender dog leg bolts to. 2 bolts on a 67-69 Barracuda. That keeps the front fender lip from being pushed out easily.
                 
              • autoxcuda

                autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                Thank you for the rim measurement.

                He’s running 6” wide rims with what seems like same backspacing. So the tire edge will be pushed out a little more. Like 1/4”.

                I thought the big bolt 73-76 disk setup pushed the rims out. Not sure it’s 1/2”, but pushes them out.

                Somethings gotta change to get more clearance: alignment, tires, rim...
                 
              • my68barracuda

                my68barracuda Well-Known Member

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                I don’t know if it would help this situation but a person could put a washer between the valence and lower fender dog leg and that would push the lower front fender lip out. The washer would cause the seam to open slightly.
                 
              • autoxcuda

                autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                Could be a little gain. Would have to try it.
                 
              • Dana67Dart

                Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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                Something just doesn't look right. My 205s on stock 5.5 wheels buldge slot. His tires look like they don't buldge at all, but his tire looks like it is way farther out. Like the back spacing is 2 to 3 vs 3 to 4.

                There are many ways to measure back spacing (BS) so i wonder if his measured BS is actually smaller than reported.

                If the tire was inboard more it would miss the fender easy

                I would like to see photos of the wheel / tire to the upper controler arm.
                 
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