1972 Plymouth Duster Alignment failure

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Bret2094

Bret2094

Angry wrench enthusiast
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Alright so when i got my duster a little over a year ago, the alighnment was out like crazy, and it could barely be driven down the road (plus eaten through many tires). I recently had a local trusted alighnment shop replace the upper and lower ball joints, tie rods and ends, and made damn sure it would stay alighned.....But as soon as you get 1o0 yards down the road, the alighnment goes wonky and the tires start to squall and the tire starts to eat away on the inside(closest to the edge of the tire ) One of the mechanics mentioned something about the engine in the car having the oil pan hit the idler arm (said the engine and exhaust looks like it came outta a truck). The Mechanics gave me a 6 month warranty, but they were scratching heads trying to figure out what to do next. The car was orriginally a 6 cylinder that has had a 360 dropped in it and the brakes are now disk brakes....Please help guys, I'd love to be able to drive her....and my wallet just got alot lighter without much result
 
PHOTOS in a case like this are a helpful starting place.

The thing is, mechanical interference should not be a GUESS, ---it should be an either "yes" or "no" thing.

Get somebody down low and work the steering from stop to stop. Jounce the suspension. Watch for contact and interference

or rig a camera (Gopro, etc) and see what the suspension/ tie rods/ center link does.

Alignment that is out so far or "changes so much" as to squal and wear the tires is NO WHERE NEAR close.

Last, with interference as you describe, you should be able to FEEL it in the wheel. Going around corners, etc, the wheel should "stick" and require you to "horse" the car back into a line

The only time I've experienced this was with (the much hated) Hedman headers which have some of the tubes under the steering linkage.

With some cars, with worn or broken engine mounts, the steering rubs the headers. Adding throttle around a left turn causes it to BIND not RUB, and BELIEVE ME you will KNOW this is happening!!!!! ! ! ! ! ! !!!!!

I looked up the word "scary steering" in the dictionary, and this is what I found:

 
Ill get on the pics. First off y'all want pics of everything replaced just to see what's going on? Pictures during/ video links even? Oh and as far as steering, its loosey goosey untill you go to turn, and then it sticks like you said 67dart273. Afterwards, the steering skips around a bit. Thanks for the input
 
Yes, the truck pan interferes with the steering. The 1972 part number for a 360 passenger car oil pan is 3418 437. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the truck parts catalog.

To check the steering, jack the car up and support the front end by the LCA. Turn steering wheel full left, then full right. Observe while this is taking place.

I checked to see if late As were like early where the V-8s used a different centerlink. They are not. The late A-body uses the same centerlink regardless of engine.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=142290

67Dart273 That is indeed scary steering. Prompts lots of questions that I doubt I'd understand the answers to.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=142290
 
2 Darts said:
Prompts lots of questions that I doubt I'd understand the answers to.
Click to expand...

LOL. Just a photo I found to illustrate the occasion,

Truck pan? Hell I didn't even know you could get the engine in the chassis with one on the engine?
 
We want pix of everything, not just what has been replaced. If the bushings were not replaced, then I would start there.

Are you saying that the alignment is good and then goes off when driven by you or just by the mechanics trying to align this car? How can they say it is aligned if they have not driven it, and if they have driven it, how come it does nto go out of alignment for them?

Either way, something that should be anchored/stable is probably moving around; bushings worn, cracked metal support in one of several places, loose steering box, etc.
 
I would be looking at lower arm bushings. A pic wont help there. They really cant be seen.
Alignment shops tend to replace exactly the parts you stated. Those are easy and quick, in and out of the bay and your pocket. Even if they properly inspect the lower arm bushings and find the fault there, don't expect them to be anxious to do the work.
 
I didn't get around to the pics today, but i will first thing after i get outta Calculus at 2. I had them change the lower arm bushings as well. to clarify, the car will stay in alignment untill anyone drives it, whether it be me or the people at the shop.(you can literally see the camber and toe go outta wack when you drive it off the lift) I will take numerous pictures tomorrow and post them. might even post a lil youtube video to show what the car is doing when turning the steering wheel. Thanks for the input, keep em coming. Any ideas on what an oil pan might run me? Pretty newbie to the mopar world( my fiirst love is for aircooled beetles) Completely different animal.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
Look at the number that is stamped on the bottom of your pan before you run out and buy something you may not need.
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Sorry about that, the page didn't show a new comment, and i dont plan on buying anything till ive got all the info straight, just a bit curious as the current pan is pressed up against the idler arm
 
Bret2094 said:
you can literally see the camber and toe go outta wack when you drive it off the lift).
Click to expand...

This sounds to me more like the shop doesn't understand you MUST "jounce" the front end to settle it into place

Arm yourself. Educate yourself........

Download a service manual if you don't have one, and read it

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=244981

More info of all kinds here. The Mopar original stuff is especially interesting

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

and from the above, browse through the MTSC stuff:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=117

"by topic:"

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=436

"Steering and Suspension"

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=454

You can download pdf documents, and watch videos. If you click at the bottom of the video display, this takes you to Youtube. If you have Firefox and "video downloader," you can save these videos

EG:

1976........."Alignment simplified"

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/mtsc/340.pdf

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCporp4fAf8"]MTSC - 1976, Volume 76-4 Alignment Simplified - YouTube[/ame]

You can easily do your own alignments. It takes a bit of time and effort, especially after a rebuild. At 66 and with osteo problems, it is difficult for me, but I do it anyway. I used my car trailer as a platform, as I don't have an indoor shop, and this elevates the car to make it easier to reach under

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=248235

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969910897
 
If it is really going out of whack just driving off of the alignment ramp, then the idler arm is not likley the issue. The idler arm does not set alignment; it would only effect thing in turns. A pix of the idler arm against the pan would be worthwhile.

Ask the shop HOW they changed the upper ball joints.....did they press them out and in? Ask it just like that.....which is wrong, BTW....to see if they say 'NO (stupid) they screw in and out.....'.

Also, ask them at what point during re-assembly did they tighten up the lower control arm pins. The right answer is only after the ride height is reset and the weight is on the cars front wheels. If they tightened the LCA pins with the car up in the air and LCA's drooping then the LCA bushings may well now be damaged/destroyed.... that would likely mess up any alignment attempt. (And you are sure they changed the LCA bushings ??? That is a lot of work as the torsion bars need to be pulled back. Just want to be sure....)

And, the upper control arm bushings could be shot and will effect all alignment parameters. Shot strut rod bushings will effect caster.

As said above, they are doing something wrong in their procedures for the car to go out of alignment just moving off of the ramp. Or they tightened the LCA pins at the wrong time and damaged/destroyed the new bushings.
 
Idler arm failure can effect toe. Up and down movement in the idler arm and drag link could be easily seen.
 
Bret2094 said:
the current pan is pressed up against the idler arm
Click to expand...

?? That right there is a HUGE problem. You cannot drive it at all like that. NO part of the moving suspension should ever touch, rub, any part of the car Again, "photos."

Either you have a wrong parts combination or wrong / broken engine mounts, etc.
 
oh and i couldnt get anyone to help today with the steering wheel to take a video, but i turned the wheels while i was under it and the passenger side idler arm seemed to move in a peculiar motion when you turn the car to the left. (seemed kinda jerky). Fixn to go and get better oil pan pics and i shall be back
 
Make sure the LCA bushing pins were tightened up with the suspension at ride height. If the pin was tightened with the suspension hanging down, the bushing will tear.

Holy crap! Am I seeing that K-member correctly? It looks like most of it was hacked out to get the oil pan in there. You need a new K and a new pan.
 
Yea that frightens me as well......how much ya think a k member will run ...this thing make me scratch my head the more i look at it
 
The entire front suspension is supported by the K-member. No wonder the alignment is all over the place. I would have the car towed back to the shop and start looking for a new K. Do not drive it like that.
 
I wouldn't drive that car 10 feet. I can't even believe the shop would work on it after seeing that. The K frame is worthless since it is butchered. The oil pan is some kind of aftermarket pan that doesn't fit the car. I would start by locating a small block K frame and getting it installed.
 
burdar said:
The entire front suspension is supported by the K-member. No wonder the alignment is all over the place. I would have the car towed back to the shop and start looking for a new K. Do not drive it like that.
Click to expand...



Found a 1973-1976 v8 K member on craigslist...isnt the only difference here the spool motor mounts?
 
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