360 or 340?

-
Ok. After reading all this and all things said, I will go with the 360. I can pick one up for $100 about 20 min from my house. I have another question and please excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject as I am new to Mopar. I was told that with Mopar the Transmission casings don't link up universally like GM's do. With that being said I had mentioned that I have a 727 trans with a small block case. One of you guys mentioned to lose the 727 and go with 904/999. Will the 904/999 fit a 360 block? Might be a stupid question, so please forgive the ignorance. I was also told that the small block and big block motor mounts are in different places. They dont bolt up the same. So I just want to be sure...since I have a 318 now, is it safe to assume that the 360 will bolt up on the motor mounts without conversion?

Any particular nice stroker builds for the 360 ?

Thanks in advance for any answers and advice.

-Mark
 
MoparMark67 said:
Well I have a 318 now. 340 is hard to come by like people have mentioned and parts are harder as well. I'm trying to figure out what I should build.
Any advice would be great. Maybe the 318? lol. So it's looking like the 360. I have a 727 Trans with a small block case. So I would like to hang onto the transmission and just stick with the small blocks. -Mark
Click to expand...

340's are the stuff of legends. When stock muscle cars were driven every day on the street, almost nothing could beat you. Why? Because they were so heavy duty and would pull really quick and really hard once you hit 3,000 RPM. They had high flow heads, a hard to beat intake and carb, matched HP cam and valve springs, quick curve distributor, and a bottom end that held together. It was one of NHRA most heavily factored engines. All that said, if you put the same everything into a 318, 340, or a 360 today, I doubt many would be able to tell the difference between a 318 and a 340. They are high RPM screamers. A 360, being a stroker, will be about the same as the other two with more torque coming on sooner but will peak out sooner in the rpm range. This assumes same heads, cam, and compression ratio. Set up right, there is little difference in 1/4 mile times between any of the three engines. I like the 727 Trans for the street, but will not knock a 904 or 999, I can give up a tenth for the longevity. I have run all three engines on the street, set up the same way in an "A" body car. I prefer a 340 for the street, but I have one already. It comes down to you and your money. What will satisfy you? Finally, NHRA Stock Class cars are not "stock" street driven cars. They are trailered Race cars, set up perfectly. The rules change also, so you cannot compare earlier years to latter years, if there was a significant change. Reread Ken Etter's post, I'm sure he would tell you there is a lot more to Class racing than one would think.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
yeah but the good ones were done in '71 [i think]
Click to expand...

There were two basic sets. The 68-71 and the 72 and later. Both had the same size diameter outlets. The driver's side was the SAME on both early and late. The passenger's side was the only difference. I've never seen any dyno info in each set, but that early passenger's side one does look cool. LOL
 
70aarcuda said:
And a good question...LOL....if the 340 was so mighty...why did Mopar stop production in 1973 but continued with the 360 engine up to 2002 or so?

actually...they should have put the 3.58 stroke in the 4.04 bore block....
Click to expand...

Well, IMO;

The performance era was coming to a close. They could have kept the HEMI as well. Heck, if the 440 could be made to pass the tail pipe test, why not the HEMI? The 400 did until the end of the big block run in 1978.

Why Chrysler went to a bigger main for the 360 is beyond me. While the extra surface area is a HP limiter, of which you'll find only on high end builds cause it's peanuts with anything less, the new engine did exibit more torque and peak in HP earlier in th RPM range. Excellent street and truck engine.
The 318 was a proven people mover for a long time.

The 3.58 crank in a 340 block is what I would have done at the factory myself. Why bother with more machining work and different parts from the tried and try?
 
At the time I was still working at the Dodge dealership and my brother and I were still racing locally on weekends. The transition from the 340 to the 360 engine in the Darts we had from 72-75 was day and night between the two and the 340's still won the races. The locals started taking the heads off brand new 360's and installing 2.02's and 1.60's and taking severe milling cuts to acheive the 10:00/1 ratios for the street/strip. Just these two changes really woke up the 360. Several Dart's and Dusters were on the street around here running faster than the 340's ever could. The 360HP engine was basically fit with everything the 340 was minus the valve size and compression so when modified accordingly was a 340 on steroids. IMO feel free to disagree. 75Sport
 
StrokerScamp said:
There were two basic sets. The 68-71 and the 72 and later. Both had the same size diameter outlets. The driver's side was the SAME on both early and late. The passenger's side was the only difference. I've never seen any dyno info in each set, but that early passenger's side one does look cool. LOL
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. I have/had both.

Three sets of 68-71 I've had are basically identical but IIRC the left has a different casting number for 71.
72-73 340s had a similar manifold shape on both right and left hand, but the outlets are 2" instead of 2 1/4" and they have bosses for the choke stove/shield.
74-up 360/318 use the same manifolds as far as I'm aware which are the same basic manifolds the 318s always had (meaning no seperate runners for the RH side nad smaller/shorter runners on the LH side and again, with the choke stove/shield stuff on them.


On the transmissions - Use what you have. There is no reason to change to a 904 if you have an operating 727. The gain is nott hat pronounced, and it will take a few bucks to get a 904 that will live behind a 4" stroke. On the interchanges... Any small block trans (after '65) will bolt to any small block. Any big block (again, after '65) will bolt up to any big block. Even the earlier ones would work but they have trunion outputs and cable shifting, plus some odd input sizes.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Well, IMO;

The performance era was coming to a close. They could have kept the HEMI as well. Heck, if the 440 could be made to pass the tail pipe test, why not the HEMI? The 400 did until the end of the big block run in 1978.

Why Chrysler went to a bigger main for the 360 is beyond me. While the extra surface area is a HP limiter, of which you'll find only on high end builds cause it's peanuts with anything less, the new engine did exibit more torque and peak in HP earlier in th RPM range. Excellent street and truck engine.
The 318 was a proven people mover for a long time.

The 3.58 crank in a 340 block is what I would have done at the factory myself. Why bother with more machining work and different parts from the tried and try?
Click to expand...

To make the Hemi pass emissions would have taken a HUGE amount of R&D... If you guys have read about the A-279 "ball-stud" Hemi they designed the chambers to be a lot shallower and the whole engine to be basically more streetable and efficient overall. If Chrysler had more money at the time I'm sure that's what would have replaced ALL of the big-blocks AND 426 Hemi in the early '70s. And who knows, if NASCAR hadn't become a backwards dictatorship with no regard to engineering excellence and technology we probably would've seen the next generation of 4-valve dual-cam-in-block or DOHC Hemi. Just trying to imagine a 7-liter-plus V8 with 4-valve heads and DOHC that can rev to 8000 RPM makes my mouth water, LOL!

Back on topic I'm kinda in the same boat as you MoparMark67, I was split between building up the 318 I already have and getting a 360 block to build up. After searching craigslist for a while I landed a long block out of a '79 Ramcharger for $100 from a guy 15 mins. away from me. I'm going to add Magnum heads (w/ 1.6 rockers), my old Lunati Voodoo 256/262 cam, and KB flat-tops for around 10.5:1 comp. I have a feeling this engine will be something akin to a planet-mover with loads of torque everywhere, which is perfect for my 3.07:1 rear gears.

340 vs. 360, just ask yourself, "do I want 0.04" more bore for $800+, or 0.27" more stroke for $100?"
 
rumblefish360 said:
Well, IMO;

The performance era was coming to a close. They could have kept the HEMI as well. Heck, if the 440 could be made to pass the tail pipe test, why not the HEMI? The 400 did until the end of the big block run in 1978.

Why Chrysler went to a bigger main for the 360 is beyond me. While the extra surface area is a HP limiter, of which you'll find only on high end builds cause it's peanuts with anything less, the new engine did exibit more torque and peak in HP earlier in th RPM range. Excellent street and truck engine.
The 318 was a proven people mover for a long time.

The 3.58 crank in a 340 block is what I would have done at the factory myself. Why bother with more machining work and different parts from the tried and try?
Click to expand...

I was in high school in the late 60's (graduated in 71) and worked in a service station that was own by a racer (ran late model sportsman and modifieds) and had a bunch or street racers working there so it attracted a lot of performance car owners. While everyone was in awh of the hemi, the cost of it put the price of a car with one out of reach for the typical late teens early 20's type that wanted one. The more well healed folks that could afford a car with a hemi soon tired of the cantankerous behaviour of the hemi and traded them for something else.

I recall the first of our customers to come in with a new 70 Hemi Cuda, we were all over it but within a year he traded it for a new 440 Cuda. He just got tired to the finicky dual quads and the solid lifters. The same thing with a customer that bought a 69 Hemi Charger he soon traded it for a 440 Charger.

Also, back then in the stop light drags you would see small block Fords, Chevies or Mopars dusting off big blocks from most anyone not because they made better power or had better power to wait ratios but because the drivers were more skilled at utilizing the available traction or spent their dollars on traction aids instead of more power. Back then the saying; "there is no replacement for displacement" would be more appropriately stated as; "there is no replacement for traction".

The reason the hemi was dropped was there was not enough demand for it to justify spending the money to keep up with the emissions requirements. Hemi cars are scarce today simply because people didn't check the box to order one either because they couldn't afford it or didn't want it, it wasn't a limited production motor.
 
Back on topic I'm kinda in the same boat as you MoparMark67, I was split between building up the 318 I already have and getting a 360 block to build up. After searching craigslist for a while I landed a long block out of a '79 Ramcharger for $100 from a guy 15 mins. away from me. I'm going to add Magnum heads (w/ 1.6 rockers), my old Lunati Voodoo 256/262 cam, and KB flat-tops for around 10.5:1 comp. I have a feeling this engine will be something akin to a planet-mover with loads of torque everywhere, which is perfect for my 3.07:1 rear gears.

340 vs. 360, just ask yourself, "do I want 0.04" more bore for $800+, or 0.27" more stroke for $100?"
Click to expand...

Yea I'm done thinking about the 340. The cost is not worth it to me. I found a 360 for $100 near my house. So I'm thinking of going with that. This way once I install that I have the 318 as back up motor if anything were to go wrong.

Now I just need a good build recipe for the 360.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Yea I'm done thinking about the 340. The cost is not worth it to me. I found a 360 for $100 near my house. So I'm thinking of going with that. This way once I install that I have the 318 as back up motor if anything were to go wrong.

Now I just need a good build recipe for the 360.

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...
Good plan. Nothing wrong with either. The initial cost to get into a 340 is more than a 360. After that, it's about the same.

How much HP you looking for and what year is the block you can get for $100.

A simple 350hp 360 build is:
KB107's
XE268H
stock heads cleaned up, better would be the RHS X heads (probably +20hp)
LD340/RPM/Air Gap
750DP or 950DP
Headers
Good ignition

Figure a HP goal and run with it.
 
crackedback said:
Yea I'm done thinking about the 340. The cost is not worth it to me. I found a 360 for $100 near my house. So I'm thinking of going with that. This way once I install that I have the 318 as back up motor if anything were to go wrong.

Now I just need a good build recipe for the 360.

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

Good plan. Nothing wrong with either. The initial cost to get into a 340 is more than a 360. After that, it's about the same.

How much HP you looking for and what year is the block you can get for $100.

A simple 350hp 360 build is:
KB107's
XE268H
stock heads cleaned up, better would be the RHS X heads (probably +20hp)
LD340/RPM/Air Gap
750DP or 950DP
Headers
Good ignition

Figure a HP goal and run with it.[/QUOTE]

Hey Crackedback,
Well unfortunately I just called and the 360 was sold last night. So I'm on the hunt for another one.
I would like 400+ hp. Thats what I'm aiming for. Maybe 360 stroked?

Thanks in advance,
Mark
 
I only read the first page of this thread but I am sure there was some spatting back and forth about which is better and what not lol (there always is lol).

I PERSONALLY would love to snag a 340 some day and toss it on a stand and slowly build it....not because I think it would make more power or because it is the best suited platform.....I guess just knowing you have a 340 is cool in its own right LOL.

but thats not to say I wouldnt drop a built 360 in either...they all make power and they all have tons of potential depending on the size of your bank account and what your build intentions are.

I PERSONALLY when it came time to get an engine for my duster was looking for a 340.....WHEN I found them....they were outrageously priced, so I decided I would go with what was cheap and use it as a starting point.

I ended up finding a 318 with a bunch of goodies for $200.00.....and I beefed it up a bit....put about $1500.00 into it including the $200.00 purchase price and it will be a stout little 318 ( 323 ) I don't expect to push more than 350 HP with it....but I didnt build it to be the fastest thing around, I build it as a good driver quality engine that wouldnt get 6 MPG and that would have some pep to it and that I could still shame some mustangs and camaros with lol.

(check out my build thread in my signature if you want to see some of the info on the engine and my duster).

anyhow, things liek this have been brought up time and time again and it always turns into a debate....but in the end it all comes down to what you have to spend, how much work you want to do and how fast you want to go.

but by NO means should you count the 318 out, they are highly underestimated by the folks who are "cubically challenged" lol
 
DusterDude72 said:
I only read the first page of this thread but I am sure there was some spatting back and forth about which is better and what not lol (there always is lol).

I PERSONALLY would love to snag a 340 some day and toss it on a stand and slowly build it....not because I think it would make more power or because it is the best suited platform.....I guess just knowing you have a 340 is cool in its own right LOL.

but thats not to say I wouldnt drop a built 360 in either...they all make power and they all have tons of potential depending on the size of your bank account and what your build intentions are.

I PERSONALLY when it came time to get an engine for my duster was looking for a 340.....WHEN I found them....they were outrageously priced, so I decided I would go with what was cheap and use it as a starting point.

I ended up finding a 318 with a bunch of goodies for $200.00.....and I beefed it up a bit....put about $1500.00 into it including the $200.00 purchase price and it will be a stout little 318 ( 323 ) I don't expect to push more than 350 HP with it....but I didnt build it to be the fastest thing around, I build it as a good driver quality engine that wouldnt get 6 MPG and that would have some pep to it and that I could still shame some mustangs and camaros with lol.

(check out my build thread in my signature if you want to see some of the info on the engine and my duster).

anyhow, things liek this have been brought up time and time again and it always turns into a debate....but in the end it all comes down to what you have to spend, how much work you want to do and how fast you want to go.

but by NO means should you count the 318 out, they are highly underestimated by the folks who are "cubically challenged" lol
Click to expand...

Thanks Dusterdude! I will have to go back on the search for a 360. If I don't find one by the time I'm ready to build, I will just build the 318. Either way I'm going to eventually own 2 motors. I always like to have a back up.

For now I'm working on the rear end and rebuilding my transmission.

I like to have everything mapped out before I go forward which is why I brought this up. I'm new to the mopar scene. Always liked them, but this is my first.

Thanks again.

Mark
 
MoparMark67 said:
Ok. After reading all this and all things said, I will go with the 360. I can pick one up for $100 about 20 min from my house. I have another question and please excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject as I am new to Mopar. I was told that with Mopar the Transmission casings don't link up universally like GM's do. With that being said I had mentioned that I have a 727 trans with a small block case. One of you guys mentioned to lose the 727 and go with 904/999. Will the 904/999 fit a 360 block? Might be a stupid question, so please forgive the ignorance. I was also told that the small block and big block motor mounts are in different places. They dont bolt up the same. So I just want to be sure...since I have a 318 now, is it safe to assume that the 360 will bolt up on the motor mounts without conversion?

Any particular nice stroker builds for the 360 ?

Right about the trans. it was dumb, but Mopar and Ford engine families do NOT share trans bolt patterns as most GM's. That said, the trans deal breaks down like this:

727 - avail for all Big blocks and Hemi's OR the 273/318/340/360. Bolt patterns will be different.

904/999 - avail for the 273.318.340/360 OR the slant 6. Yes, the bolt pattern is differnent for the 6-er.
Click to expand...
 
MoparMark67 said:
Good plan. Nothing wrong with either. The initial cost to get into a 340 is more than a 360. After that, it's about the same.

How much HP you looking for and what year is the block you can get for $100.

A simple 350hp 360 build is:
KB107's
XE268H
stock heads cleaned up, better would be the RHS X heads (probably +20hp)
LD340/RPM/Air Gap
750DP or 950DP
Headers
Good ignition

Figure a HP goal and run with it.
Click to expand...

Hey Crackedback,
Well unfortunately I just called and the 360 was sold last night. So I'm on the hunt for another one.
I would like 400+ hp. Thats what I'm aiming for. Maybe 360 stroked?

Thanks in advance,
Mark[/QUOTE]

Mark, think about it like this:

1) You have to buy pistons anyway, right? KB makes a hyper slug for the 360 with a 4" crank.
2) You have to re-do the OEM rods, right? For $300 you can get brand new SCAT I beams...that usually require NO block grinding with a 4" crank...mine didn't!
3) You have to have the OEM crank magged, turned, polsihed, etc, right? For $295 you can get a quality cast 4" crank from Ohio crankshaft.
4) You're gonna have to balance the stock stroke 360 with the new pistons, right?

Get my point? I would bet it would be NO MORE than a few hundred dollars to get 408 inches rather than 365. And with a 4" crank...can you say TORQUE? With just redone stock heads, (although that debate will fill up another 10 pages...LOL!) and the right cam you should see 425-440 very streetable HP and 460-475 ft lbs of torque pretty easy! Pump gas, hyd cam, drive it every day, everywhere kind of motor.

Just keep money around for new rear tires often...
 
Bummer about the 360 selling. Keep your eyes open, they pop up pretty often.

I agree with Dusterdoug on the build stuff. Reworking all the stock pieces gets you very close in price to getting new parts. Scat crank, the new I beam rods and some pistons and you have an easy 450hp deal with plenty of torque.
 
QUOTE= I will have to go back on the search for a 360. If I don't find one by the time I'm ready to build, I will just build the 318. Either way I'm going to eventually own 2 motors. I always like to have a back up.

I have a friend who has a sellers/buyers license and attends auctions regularly. Last year I asked him to keep an eye out for a mid to late 70's 360 and 727 trans and my friend ends up buying an entire 1977 Chrysler Cordoba, running, for $200! He pulled the engine and tranny, delivered it to me at my place of work, and then scrapped the rest. The bid started at $100 but some guy from Pick-A-Parts kept raising him. He made a "gentlemen's deal" with the Pick-A-Parts guy and won the auction. I can't make any promises to you but I'll put another word out for you and see what he can come up with. Again, no promises. I see you live locally so delivery or pick-up shouldn't be a problem. As mentioned before, those things are out there, you just have to dig them up.
Good Luck,
Forrest
PS: PM me for more info
 
redone rods w/ARP are only around $120-140.00

If you were to buy everything new, crank,rods,heads...it is almost double the price of re con'ing the old stuff.

stock replacement rebuild on heads=is around $600----new heads $1000-$1200+

crank grind=$90-$100-------new crank $300 or more

do what ever.
 
Just want to thank everyone for the advice. I really appreciate it, you guys were a big help.

Thanks,
Mark
 
you could hunt around the junkyards for a late model factory roller cam 360 or 5.9 magnum plenty of them in vans and pickup's $200 at the U-pull it yards around here
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
redone rods w/ARP are only around $120-140.00

If you were to buy everything new, crank,rods,heads...it is almost double the price of re con'ing the old stuff.

stock replacement rebuild on heads=is around $600----new heads $1000-$1200+

crank grind=$90-$100-------new crank $300 or more

do what ever.
Click to expand...

Just another data point on costs.

The machine shop I used for my 360 build charges;

$25 each for cleaning, magnifluxing, resizing and installing new bolts plus the price of the bolts for rod reconditioning (ARP Bolts are $60 for a total of $260). They suggested I take a look at new rods from Eagle or Scat. I wound up going with the Eagle SIR rods and saved about $25 and wound up with a stronger rod with floating pins and ARP cap screws.

To have my crank cleaned, magnifluxed, ground 0.010" under size and polished cost $225.

To have my Block cleaned, magnifluxed, square decked, bored 0.030" over with finish honing with deck plates, new cam bearings installed and painted was $800.

Balancing of the rotating assembly was $250, this is a must with the SIR rods and KB107 pistons because they are so much lighter.

I didn't have any machine work done on the heads, they came from a low mileage Durango that spun a bearing under warranty.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top