208Dart
Well-Known Member
Made an executive decision and went with a cast aluminum color and don’t regret it (yet!) one bit.
'70 Dart 392 Project; what direction?
- Thread starter 208Dart
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DionR
Well-Known Member
I like it!
I was going to suggest the original blue, but that works.
I think I am going to go with black, but I have awhile before I have to actually do it so....
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Since I painted it aluminum, it reduces the weight right??? ;)
Black would look good, I wanted something that popped a bit since the car already is a bright color. I don't intend to have any leaks on this thing but in case I do the lighter color should help identify them.
Mike
Kiddart1
Well-Known Member
I like the look, of the aluminum paint color!!! I painted the block black with all the alum accents it looks ok. For what it is. the heads and intake are really what you see most in my car. if it comes out and i am sure it will i will go the route you went it looks great. also will get the questions going.... is that block aluminum???? pending your mood and who asks that could be a great fish on story.
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Thank you! Definitely don’t regret it yet. The aluminum question would be hilarious. I’m redoing the paint on the front cover, it got scuffed moving it too early, but I did mock up the intake and valve covers just to see what it looks like! Unsure what I want to do for the valve cover covers. I’ll likely pick up a set of the factory 392 branded covers. But so far I’m liking it! This engine is NOT small that’s for sure…
Mike
Kiddart1
Well-Known Member
no the gen 3 is a large motor for sure.Thank you! Definitely don’t regret it yet. The aluminum question would be hilarious. I’m redoing the paint on the front cover, it got scuffed moving it too early, but I did mock up the intake and valve covers just to see what it looks like! Unsure what I want to do for the valve cover covers. I’ll likely pick up a set of the factory 392 branded covers. But so far I’m liking it! This engine is NOT small that’s for sure…
Mike
View attachment 1715949611
Dare to be different! let your conscience be your guide, as Jiminy Cricket said. Go for it!
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Couple of hiccups recently, July was a rough month for auto repairs! Had the pull the 68RFE from my cummins and send back to Revmax after only 10K miles for either a failed converter or trans pump.... Wife's F150 developed a bad timing chain slap/knock.... and this engines cam dowell pin sheared off...
While rotating crank by hand with rocker shafts installed, I noticed A hard rotational spot, I didn't force it but backed off and investigated. Long story short turns out that my cam dowel pin had sheared off. Looks like it was seated properly, and it was torqued but either it didn't fit the new cam phaser slot very good to begin with or the cam pin wasn't seated in the cam all the way. Returned the camshaft to MMX and they sent me a replacement (kudos to them, no questions asked replacement).
Once I received the cam back I reinstalled. FYI for those of you that don't know, once you have #1 cylinder at TDC and align the cam gear and crank gear up with the timing chain marks, they will NOT line back up after initial install and rotation. This threw me off for a minute until I did some research into it. Learn something new every day!
Next I noticed that I have a stuck exhaust valve. I must've not have been as gentle as I thought on that tight spot.... OR it was already bent and it is what caused the cam pin to fail.... either way it's unknown the cause but it needs replaced. Going back to shop on monday to have it replaced and then I'll be able to finish the top end install.
I ordered my Holley oil pan back in early June with an estimated ship date of late July. Now they're saying it'll be mid november.... Looking at a Milodon now but once you factor in the new windage tray, gaskets, pickup, and pan I'm well over $500. Think I'll just end up waiting for the holley unless something has another source?
Next debate is what I want to do with my 833 transmission setup. I've got flywheel and pilot bearing part numbers ready to order from Brewers performance.... I just need a clutch kit I believe.
Current question is do I stick with the factory pedals/Z bar setup or do I go with a hydraulic TO bearing and kit? Will my factory 1970 stuff still work with the Gen 3?
If anyone has a clutch recommendation I'm all ears as well. Thanks in advance
Mike
While rotating crank by hand with rocker shafts installed, I noticed A hard rotational spot, I didn't force it but backed off and investigated. Long story short turns out that my cam dowel pin had sheared off. Looks like it was seated properly, and it was torqued but either it didn't fit the new cam phaser slot very good to begin with or the cam pin wasn't seated in the cam all the way. Returned the camshaft to MMX and they sent me a replacement (kudos to them, no questions asked replacement).
Once I received the cam back I reinstalled. FYI for those of you that don't know, once you have #1 cylinder at TDC and align the cam gear and crank gear up with the timing chain marks, they will NOT line back up after initial install and rotation. This threw me off for a minute until I did some research into it. Learn something new every day!
Next I noticed that I have a stuck exhaust valve. I must've not have been as gentle as I thought on that tight spot.... OR it was already bent and it is what caused the cam pin to fail.... either way it's unknown the cause but it needs replaced. Going back to shop on monday to have it replaced and then I'll be able to finish the top end install.
I ordered my Holley oil pan back in early June with an estimated ship date of late July. Now they're saying it'll be mid november.... Looking at a Milodon now but once you factor in the new windage tray, gaskets, pickup, and pan I'm well over $500. Think I'll just end up waiting for the holley unless something has another source?
Next debate is what I want to do with my 833 transmission setup. I've got flywheel and pilot bearing part numbers ready to order from Brewers performance.... I just need a clutch kit I believe.
Current question is do I stick with the factory pedals/Z bar setup or do I go with a hydraulic TO bearing and kit? Will my factory 1970 stuff still work with the Gen 3?
If anyone has a clutch recommendation I'm all ears as well. Thanks in advance
Mike
DionR
Well-Known Member
I'm waiting to order a Holley pan, too. Been watching the date but I am seeing mid October, not November. Sorry I don't have another source.
I was watching their headers and saw them bump the price by $220 so I jumped on a set on eBay for the original price. But the seller couldn't locate the set he showed in stock so now I wait for a new shipment and watch the date move back a month each time the estimated ship date arrives.
I looked but I can't find what you settled on for headers and mounts. I did look up the TTI recommendations and they say you can run a z-bar but you have to modify it. If you are running the Holley mounts, the motor moves and the z-bar mount won't be in the right spot so you would need to build a new one of those. No idea on the Holley headers, they don't seem to make any comments probably because the stock trans/bell isn't in the factory location so it's kind of a "roll your own" deal if you use their parts.
So, I guess it depends on how much you want to build the parts to make the stock stuff work. Either way, looks like it requires some custom parts. Or you go hydraulic.
I know the bell will bolt to the motor, and assuming the flywheel is for a conversion, in theory from the face of the flywheel back it should be old school SB stuff so your factory stuff should work. Assuming you can get it hooked up.
Maybe that helps??
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Definitely helps! Furthering the discussion always helps.
I don't plan on having this up and running until next spring/summer at the earliest so I will likely wait for the Holley pan myself.... I like the O-ring style gasket and the cast aluminum over the stamped steel of the Milodon.
Haven't decided on headers yet! I am running the HDK tubular front K member with his mounts + power rack/pinion steering so my header options are up to my preference. I do like the 3" collectors on the TTI's over the A body 2.5" collectors for the Hooker headers...
You know how these threads/builds go, everybody wants to know what fits and what doesn't before they actually try bolting components together. Once we get to that point it usually becomes MUCH clearer what needs to be done and it's usually not a big deal (I'm 100% guilty of this). At this point I'm leaning towards attempting to make the Z bar setup work... If anything just because I have it already to go!
With that said, does anyone have experience on clutch pedal feel on the A833 with hyraulic TO bearing vs traditional? I'm okay with a little stiffer clutch but my wife will want to occasionally drive this as well and it'd be nice if she didn't get a left leg workout while doing so
Last time I drove an 833 was 15 years ago....Mike
DionR
Well-Known Member
I'm hoping to start my swap the winter of 23/24 as I just don't have the time/funds to gather everything before this winter. So I am certainly not needing the pan right now, either. But I like having the big stiff so that when I do get there I'm not waiting like I am now.
Completely agree with your opinion on the Holley pan. Just looks like a better product.
In that case, I would ignore the Holley headers. Denny's setup puts the motor/trans in the stock location and the TTI headers for a coil over setup allow for a modified z-bar. The Holley headers are setup for a modified motor location and might not work if the motor isn't relocated and best I can tell they require a hydraulic clutch.
Personally, best thing about the Holley kit is the OEM low mount AC compressor fits on a VVT motor and the SRV and intercooler setup both clear the firewall. If neither are important, not sure it is worth the fact that the trans mount and everything related has to change even if the stock trans is used. That's why I am expecting to do my T56/TR6060 swap at the same time since I can't do one and then the other.
No idea if Denny's setup allows for a stock low mount compressor to bolt up. If not, he should look at changing it up so they do. @HemiDenny?
208Dart
Well-Known Member
My only concern on the truck pan is the depth. I still have my 6.4 truck oil pan and it measures about 8.5" from gasket surface to bottom of pan. On the Milodon pan it lists it's depth as 6". Not sure if that's 6" deep sump area or if it's measured from gasket surface to bottom of pan....
6.4BGE engine has a factory oil capacity of 7 quarts, the milodon lists 6 quart capacity and the holley lists 6.5 quart capacity (with filter).
At least now I've got a timeline/deadline to get my K-member installed and see what kind of clearance I'll have with the factory truck pan, unless someone has a milodon or holley pan they can measure height for me?
Thanks for the help fellas really appreciate it!
Mike
If you have a conversion 10 1/2 inch flywheel, all the small block stuff works. Did this swap in a 72 Challenger. Used all small block linkage. Lined up and worked perfectly.
208Dart
Well-Known Member
loganscuda
This/These
What year is the truck pan from? I have an 04 5.7 with RMS and the pan would not fit. I have to remove the rack to get the milidon off and on
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Well took a little time this afternoon and got the old cross member out and bolted in the new one and upper control arms. Super easy install. Still have to drill some holes for the shock towers but other than that went together easy so far. Excited to get the R&P installed as well as sway bars.
One more question for now, can I modify or reuse my column shift auto steering column or do I need to look for a manual or floor shift column setup?
One more question for now, can I modify or reuse my column shift auto steering column or do I need to look for a manual or floor shift column setup?
Have to trim the outer tube back to just about the firewall. Thus, moving the plastic bushing/bearing back too. My son has a 73 Scamp with 6.1/904 with factory column shift. Factory K and suspension.
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Perfect. I haven’t even inspected the column shift mechanism inside, but is it easily removed? Same question for gear shift indicator? Thank you!
Mike
If you decide to go floor shift, just easier to get a floor shift column. If your up for chop, cut, rebuild.... No big deal then.
Edsrt
Well-Known Member
I ended up using a hydraulic throw out bearing from American Drivetrain with a Center force dual friction clutch and Lakewood scatter shield. I tried to modify the Z bar but I still interfered with my TTI headers and did not work smoothly. I did have to machine about 0.090 of of the hydraulic throw out bearing to get the proper air gap at the clutch. The pedal is firm but not hard and the a833 shifts smoothly. Just note the front suspension is stock k frame and torsion barsDefinitely helps! Furthering the discussion always helps.
I don't plan on having this up and running until next spring/summer at the earliest so I will likely wait for the Holley pan myself.... I like the O-ring style gasket and the cast aluminum over the stamped steel of the Milodon.
Haven't decided on headers yet! I am running the HDK tubular front K member with his mounts + power rack/pinion steering so my header options are up to my preference. I do like the 3" collectors on the TTI's over the A body 2.5" collectors for the Hooker headers...
You know how these threads/builds go, everybody wants to know what fits and what doesn't before they actually try bolting components together. Once we get to that point it usually becomes MUCH clearer what needs to be done and it's usually not a big deal (I'm 100% guilty of this). At this point I'm leaning towards attempting to make the Z bar setup work... If anything just because I have it already to go!
With that said, does anyone have experience on clutch pedal feel on the A833 with hyraulic TO bearing vs traditional? I'm okay with a little stiffer clutch but my wife will want to occasionally drive this as well and it'd be nice if she didn't get a left leg workout while doing so
Mike
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Good to know, I'll be ordering up a clutch kit/flywheel/pilot bearing and some rebuild parts from brewers this week for the 833. Was looking at the McCloud super street dual friction clutch that's good to 500hp... Hope she holds and if she doesn't well then I won't complain too much.
BTW that's an impressive combination getting everything to fit on a factory K and TB setup!
Currently shopping for wheel/tire combinations as well so I can get front wheels on the car to measure my shock height from HDK... I'm finding out that not everyone makes a 15x12 wheel for the rearend (want to run 325/50/r15) and if they do they're quite expensive!
Favorite wheels so far: BG Rod Works Old School Wheels & Old School Rims On Sale (voxxwheel.com)
But no widths close enough to run what I want to on the rear. May end up with a variant of the Torque Thrust 2's
Mike @ HCA
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