Automotive Catch 22 - wtf

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dart_68

dart_68

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Me: "I need a cam recommendation for a street/strip Duster with 360 and a 904 trans?"
Them: "What converter are you running?
Me: "None, I don't have a converter yet."
Them: "Well, give us a call back when you have a converter picked out."

Me: "I need a converter recommendation for a street/strip Duster with 360 and a 904 trans?"
Them: "What camshaft do you have?"
Me: "I don't have a camshaft picked out yet."
Them: "Well, give us a call back when you have a camshaft picked out."

Me: ARRRRRRGGGG!
 
skep419 said:
what gears are you running with how tall of tires
Click to expand...
The problem is that EVERYTHING is pretty much up in the air as the build of this Duster has not really begun. The only thing I know about it is that it will have a 360 and a 904 tranny. As of this writing, I don't know yet what the rear gears are or if it's an LS. Tire height will determined by what the rear gearing is and what I want for my rpm at the finish line.
 
dart_68 said:
The problem is that EVERYTHING is pretty much up in the air as the build of this Duster has not really begun. The only thing I know about it is that it will have a 360 and a 904 tranny. As of this writing, I don't know yet what the rear gears are or if it's an LS. Tire height will determined by what the rear gearing is and what I want for my rpm at the finish line.
Click to expand...

1. Figure up your desired RPM at the finish line first, the determine the gear ratio/biggest tire you can fit into your wheel well. All kinds of formulas on the internet to figure this out.
2. Figure out the cam for your desired operating range. Tell the cam company to recommend a converter stall range for the cam they recommend.
3. Call the converter company with the above information.
4. Put it all together (the hard part)!
 
middleagecrisis said:
1. Figure up your desired RPM at the finish line first, the determine the gear ratio/biggest tire you can fit into your wheel well. All kinds of formulas on the internet to figure this out.
2. Figure out the cam for your desired operating range. Tell the cam company to recommend a converter stall range for the cam they recommend.
3. Call the converter company with the above information.
4. Put it all together (the hard part)!
Click to expand...
Good plan. I think the "Put it all together" will be the easy part!:lol:
The engine is on a stand right now. It didn't come from this car. It's an '89 360. One of the first things I intend to do is CC the heads and block to get an accurate static compression ratio.
 
You hit the bricks without enough information to get you anywhere. This is where "Make a plan" ( & stick with it!) comes into play. Most factors are known already. Here is how we start to make the plan ....

How fast do you want to go in the 1/4
What do you want from your car?
Street, street strip (% of street vs strip)
Or race car?
 
rumblefish360 said:
You hit the bricks without enough information to get you anywhere. This is where "Make a plan" ( & stick with it!) comes into play. Most factors are known already. Here is how we start to make the plan ....

How fast do you want to go in the 1/4
What do you want from your car?
Street, street strip (% of street vs strip)
Or race car?
Click to expand...
Oh I definitely have a plan. I'm just trying to figure out what parts to get. I plan to make it a weekend warrior but I will have to drive it to the track. I MIGHT drive it to a local show or get together once in a great while but my main goal is to burn up the drag strip...within my limitations.
 
what are internal parts on the engine....pistons...rods...stock crank?

cylinder heads....what has been done to them...stock heads....aftermarket heads..

intake manifold....carb...headers.....fuel available...racing gas?....

how fast do you want to run?

Limitations???....Clint once said...A man needs to know his limitations....
 
You tell the cam company you want the biggest, and the converter company you want the loosest (snicker), and you'll be winning races in no time.

The biggest and the loosest always makes a good fit.
 
dart_68 said:
Oh I definitely have a plan. I'm just trying to figure out what parts to get. I plan to make it a weekend warrior but I will have to drive it to the track. I MIGHT drive it to a local show or get together once in a great while but my main goal is to burn up the drag strip...within my limitations.
Click to expand...

I don't think you got a plan.
I think you have an idea.
IF you had a plan, you'd have what your after and not complaining about the catch 22 in the post.

My question was an effort to help you out. Since you didn't answer it, I'm going to guess you really don't need help. After all, you can whip out all of the answers Tony posted up. (70AARCuda)
 
jos51700 said:
You tell the cam company you want the biggest, and the converter company you want the loosest (snicker), and you'll be winning races in no time.

The biggest and the loosest always makes a good fit.
Click to expand...
Is that kinda like sex? But I digress...
 
rumblefish360 said:
I don't think you got a plan.
I think you have an idea.
IF you had a plan, you'd have what your after and not complaining about the catch 22 in the post.

My question was an effort to help you out. Since you didn't answer it, I'm going to guess you really don't need help. After all, you can whip out all of the answers Tony posted up. (70AARCuda)
Click to expand...
You are correct, sir. I have an idea of what I want to do and I'm working on a plan of action.
 
Well, if you would, and I'm asking yet again, what is your idea, wants, performance goal?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Well, if you would, and I'm asking yet again, what is your idea, wants, performance goal?
Click to expand...
My idea is to drag race my Duster. A weekend warrior, if you will. I want it to be as quick and fast as I can make it but I have to do it with a specific limitation, that being that I will have to drive the car to the track (and hopefully back, but that's racing). Pretty much everything is on the table and up in the air. I am in the research stage now. I have decided to go with a 360 for now as it presents the easiest and quickest way to at least get the car to the track. Mods to the engine and car will be progressive and I've been reading threads both old and new. I've worked on Mopars since I was 16 (my first car was a '65 Barracuda). But despite my many years of experience I am often left in the dust by the members on this website. I value their expertise and opinions.

On another note - I tend to be somewhat of a smart *** and hope that I don't come off as a dumb ***. I never want to offend or dis someone here. If anything I have said comes off as such, it was not intended and I truly apologize.
 
How far are you going to drive it to the track? That will influence your cam, converter and rear gear selection... 5600 rpm stall and a .750 roller with 4.88 gears may be fun in town but not for a 50 mile drive on the highway...
 
I know lots about fixing engines and nothing about building them. I do know that i need a goal and a list of steps to get there.
Its a big picture to paint, but if you make a rough sketch so to speak it wil make your life a lot easier.
 
You need a plan. Not rough, not high level, not "maybes" or "mights". If it has to drive any distance to the track, that's a handicap for a race oriented car. You can't gear for an rpm at the stripe because you have to gear for the drive there. So the combo will be different. The companies are answering right you correctly. You need to figure out the plan and solidify it before you talk to them. I also think it's a little backwards to build an engine and then the car. Build the car, then the engine.
 
DrCharles said:
How far are you going to drive it to the track? That will influence your cam, converter and rear gear selection... 5600 rpm stall and a .750 roller with 4.88 gears may be fun in town but not for a 50 mile drive on the highway...
Click to expand...
Distance to the track is just a hair over 10 miles.
 
moper said:
You need a plan. Not rough, not high level, not "maybes" or "mights". If it has to drive any distance to the track, that's a handicap for a race oriented car. You can't gear for an rpm at the stripe because you have to gear for the drive there. So the combo will be different. The companies are answering right you correctly. You need to figure out the plan and solidify it before you talk to them. I also think it's a little backwards to build an engine and then the car. Build the car, then the engine.
Click to expand...
I agree. However, I'm not building the engine then the car. I realize that the combo going to have to work together to get the best results and that's what I'm trying to find out. People ask things like "How fast do you want to go?" I would like to run 5's in the quarter...but unless I'm running a TF dragster that's not a realistic goal. The question is more "How fast can I make it go and still be able to reasonably drive it the 10 miles to the track?" This car will not be a daily driver in any sense of the word but having to drive it to the track very much restricts what I can do to the combo. What I can do to the engine has a great deal to with what converter and gears I run. I can upgrade the cam, heads, etc...but how much? I don't care if it's doggy on the street as long as it runs well at the track. I could spray it with nitrous so much that it looks like an entomophobe spraying for cockroaches, but the engine wouldn't live very long, let alone any other parts not up to snuff.

All these things are up in the air. That is the research I'm conducting now. I've won't be purchasing any parts till I have a better idea on what I can do. My original post was not a question but a commentary about my research. I do appreciate everyone's' help.
 
Dart_68, you come off as coy, elusive and vauge. A tiny bit smart assie within a reasonable level. All of which I can easily handle but it does frustrate me when I'm/we are trying to help. Your not giving answers to asked questions and THEN your last response just sets me back in the chair with me asking myself, why did I bother answering this guy.

Proceed to the racers section and view the top stickies for helpful information that was set up a while back on how members here run there times. There broken down into time zones. 12, 11, 10, 9 and quicker seconds in the 1/4 mile unless they state there running the 1/8th.

This should answer a lot of questions for you. As well as generate more questions. At least 10 miles is super close. So perhaps a set of 4.88's would be OK.

In the future, you will find that people are less willing to help unless you are actually forth coming and honest about matters and not coy or a smart ***. You'll find that many people assign a tone to the written text that was never intended. And then you will be largely ignored and thought as an asshole instead of the humorous manor you thought you written it in.
 
The easiest and cheapest way to get a car to travel 1/4 mile in 5 seconds is to have the car dropped from 1/2 mile up.
Research is research. Asking for solutions is asking for solutions, and that involves having a plan. You can do whatever you want. It's all up to you. So research on your own. When you know how much have to spend, what exactly you want it to do, and how fast you want it to be, then ask for packages. Or just build it and see what it goes, and if it doesn't go fast enough, change it.
 
dart_68 said:
The question is more "How fast can I make it go and still be able to reasonably drive it the 10 miles to the track?" This car will not be a daily driver in any sense of the word but having to drive it to the track very much restricts what I can do to the combo.
Click to expand...

OK, that gives us a starting point for suggestions. Keep in mind the wisdom of the ancients: "Speed costs money, son. How fast do you want to go?" :)

You can "relatively" easily construct a big-block A-body to run low 11's or even high 10's (on all motor) without super-deep gears. A 10.90 car should also be capable of a ten mile cruise if you don't cheap out on the cooling system. If you build a decent 451 or 470 (see the articles/threads by Andy F.) you can run that number.

Is that the kind of info you're looking for? As people have said less politely above, you're not giving us a whole lot to go on. But I'll take a stab. Hope that helps ;)

-Charles
ps Remember that faster than 11.49 is going to require a 6-pt. rollbar, at least by NHRA tech.

EDIT: Just saw you have a 360. You'll want to stroke that, and can make it well over 400" if you want to stay with a small block. The 904 may not hold up under big torque and full-throttle shifts...
 
DrCharles said:
OK, that gives us a starting point for suggestions. Keep in mind the wisdom of the ancients: "Speed costs money, son. How fast do you want to go?" :)

You can "relatively" easily construct a big-block A-body to run low 11's or even high 10's (on all motor) without super-deep gears. A 10.90 car should also be capable of a ten mile cruise if you don't cheap out on the cooling system. If you build a decent 451 or 470 (see the articles/threads by Andy F.) you can run that number.

Is that the kind of info you're looking for? As people have said less politely above, you're not giving us a whole lot to go on. But I'll take a stab. Hope that helps ;)

-Charles
ps Remember that faster than 11.49 is going to require a 6-pt. rollbar, at least by NHRA tech.

EDIT: Just saw you have a 360. You'll want to stroke that, and can make it well over 400" if you want to stay with a small block. The 904 may not hold up under big torque and full-throttle shifts...
Click to expand...
Thank you.

The biggest problem I have not is that I simply don't have enough information. Plain and simple. In fact, I have so little information that I can't ask the right questions or know what questions to ask. That's what the original post was about; that I don't know enough...yet. But I'm working on that. It's a process. I did ask in another thread about experiences and/or problems with going to a big block. I believe that it's the best way to make big power but simply not feasible for me right now, maybe later. So that is why I'm going with a 360. Posters have asked questions for which I don't have an answer. One question was what size rear tire and what gears. The problem with answering that question is that I don't have tires since I'm not racing yet. The gears I haven't picked out yet as I haven't figured out the rpm of the combo yet. I'll probably go with something in the range of 4:10 or 4:30 with a 28" tall tire. As one poster mentioned I can't really gear it for finish line rpm or go with a 5000 stall converter as that's not practical for a car that has to be driven to the track. Agreed.

I don't know what else I can say but, seriously, I do appreciate the suggestions.
 
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