Bolt in Harness Bar don't do it!!!

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lilcuda said:
Here's what they look like after an accident. 'Nuff said.
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You know, I'd wondered if there was a picture out there like that. It looked like I could put my feet on the package tray and pull on it and do that, but I didn't know how thick the tubing wall was.

Original poster:
If one person calls you a duck, you laugh.
If another person calls you a duck, you stop and think about it.
If a third person calls you a duck, start quacking.

You call it asking for thoughts, ideas, opinions, advice, whatever, but if you are just going to filter out what you don't like (regardless of the excuses you want to make for not liking a reason), you're just looking for high-fives, not an opinion, idea, or whatever you're calling it.

I hope that the above picture shows you that we're looking out for you, not trying to be rude or anything.
 
Ask the person that apparently died in that pictured accident how the bar worked out for them?
 
Thanks but I have seen that happen to a roll cage if you hit something hard enough all kinds of things can happen. I've also seen where the welds snap clean off on a cage. That wreck looked like it had to have happened at high speed. I'm not looking for high fives. I would like to know how fast the idiot was going when that happened.
 
would also like to know why thats the only picture on al gores internets that showes a failed harness bar.
 
mowrycuda68 said:
Thanks but I have seen that happen to a roll cage if you hit something hard enough all kinds of things can happen. I've also seen where the welds snap clean off on a cage. That wreck looked like it had to have happened at high speed. I'm not looking for high fives. I would like to know how fast the idiot was going when that happened.
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Wow. The 1 inch bar in your car compared to roll cages?

Your ego is sufficiently inflated to keep you safe from any accident. I'm out.
 
My ego? really? look at that kind of speed no matter what you have in your car you can pretty much kiss your *ss good bye. that wreck does not show that a harness bar was the problem the idiot drivers right foot is the problem. There is nothing on the market that can keep you safe from any accident. I still see no problem with using the harness bar in my car. I think the one with the ego trip is you sir. never compared it to a cage. I did say that I have seen cages fail before does that mean that no one should get one....NO it doesn't. so just because one looser decided to go fast and furious on the street and get him self killed and he bent up his harness bar. you blame the bar well I would say a lot more than the harness bar failed in that wreck. Did I mention its the only picture of a harness bar that failed like that. I'm not saying that that has to be the only case of harness bar bending like that but seriously if it were such a problem why is it not all over the net.
 
Comparing a picture of a car that took a direct hit with intrusion into the passenger compartment to one of what appears to be nothing entering the compartment, yep no further discussion needed here. Carry on.
 
You should attach the end of the heim rod to the rear window crank. That way you can adjust the position of the bar as needed by rotating the crank, for taller or shorter occupants.
 
That adds no rigidity and would likely collapse in a < 30 mph collision. Every mounting point it uses is a potential pivot.
I dont see the point if you have to remove it so anyone can ride in the back because what will you use for restraints then?
Honestly, you'd be much better off with factory type 3 point lap/shoulder belt attached to the factory mounting points.
 
Mowry, couple of questions for you:

Are those Schroth ASM belts?

It appears that you have a notchback and the belts are plenty long enough, could you weld up a structure in your trunk under the tray and attach the belts to that? It would be unobtrusive to the rear passengers and you could spread the load along several structural members in the trunk.

Another possible option would be to anchor the belts to the floor and use the harness bar for positioning the belts at the right height. I know they would still see a pretty good loading in case of an accident but it should be somewhat less than having the belts anchored to the bar itself.

I understand what you are trying to do, I have the same problem in a 67 fastback so no place to hide the bar. Car will be driven on the street with my kids in it so a cage is not an option, but I will be autocrossing the car so I would like to have something. I have raced cars before and did my best to knock down the front stretch wall once (it's still standing despite mine and numerous others attempts) so I do know the value of a well built cage, a proper seat, and a 6 point harness. From what I have read the Schroth ASM system is designed as a 4 point but collapses like a 3 point. It also is designed to be mounted using the rear seat belt attachment points. While nothing is perfect short of building 2 seperate cars (not in my budget) it will be a definite improvement over my lap only set up that the car had before I started building it.

Jason
 
mowrycuda68 said:
:coffee2:
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What are you intending to do with this car? Drag race, Auto-X, Road Race (or track event)? Do you intend to use a Hans device?


From your photo, applying rules from NASA, SCCA and many other sanctioning bodies (assuming a harness bar is allowable):
1) Your belts are at too high of an incline from the driver in the seated position. Belts should attach to the mounting point at an angle 90 degrees from the plane of the driver's spline to no more than 20 degrees LOWER than the 90 degrees from the drivers spline plane. Too high you may be ejected from the harness during an incident, too low and your spine may suffer serious compression during and incident.
2) If the distance from your shoulders to the mounting point is more than 18", the shoulder belts should be crossed from the mounting to the seat. (Keeps you under the belts)
3) Unless your seat is FIA rated, a seat-back brack is required (normally from the seat back to the roll cage cross bar - to keep the seat from hingeing in either direction during an incident).

Don't get me wrong, we are not trying to throw you under the bus, rather are just concerned for your overall safety. We want you to be able to walk away from anything that you may encounter! :thumbrig:
 
Jimacuda said:
Honestly, you'd be much better off with factory type 3 point lap/shoulder belt attached to the factory mounting points.
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I was wondering the same thing, but I dont believe shoulder belts were an option in 67-9 cudas, so there wouldnt be mounting points would there?? Im asking cuz I dont know.
 
4spdragtop said:
I was wondering the same thing, but I dont believe shoulder belts were an option in 67-9 cudas, so there wouldnt be mounting points would there?? Im asking cuz I dont know.
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not sure about the cudas but our 69 dart you had a choice. lap belt or an over shoulder belt. so there was definatley a mounting point up there to put a 3 point over the lap/shoulder system in the car. looks like the OP's car has that upper mount also .
 
mowrycuda68 said:
Thanks but I have seen that happen to a roll cage if you hit something hard enough all kinds of things can happen. I've also seen where the welds snap clean off on a cage. That wreck looked like it had to have happened at high speed. I'm not looking for high fives. I would like to know how fast the idiot was going when that happened.
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At 1st I wasn't gonna chime in negatively. But now you are just sounding foolish! Any Roll cage that the welds snap off wasn't welded professionally or anywhere near correctly! Go & youtube some of the wrecks in NHRA(Bruce Allen & Kenny Koretsky come to mind 1st) & see the integrity of roll cage construction. Many more lives are save because of roll bars/ cages. As for your device, I wouldn't trust Heim joints bolted in on such a severe angle to maintain integrity if it were my life depending on it. The intrusiveness of the back seat area alone would make me say no to it. This appears more & more like what people are saying- a gimmicky product. Has it been sufficiently crash tested? Any reputable associations certify or endorse it? That picture of the failed bar has to get you wondering. That's a pretty extreme failure! Maybe from an extreme impact too. But how much failure is necessary to cause injury or death? Maybe a serious impact only causes 1/2 the damage to the bar, but that may be too much to endure for the occupants involved.
Sorry no hi 5s from me. It looks suspect at best! Maybe this isn't the place to post something if you don't want to hear opposing views. Just hang out at the car shows where people will agree with you instead.
 
Isn't that bar gonna obstruct your view out of the rear window? And the belts look like they are mounted up way too high like Hyper-Performance had noted. Where is this product made.....China? I looked at the ebay link you posted and it looks like it is made mainly for import/tuner cars....that would be the first sign that says "stay away" for me.
 
abodyjoe said:
not sure about the cudas but our 69 dart you had a choice. lap belt or an over shoulder belt. so there was definatley a mounting point up there to put a 3 point over the lap/shoulder system in the car. looks like the OP's car has that upper mount also .
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Thanks Joe, thats what I would be doing then. If you wanted to add more safety to the current restraint system, I would look at adding factory correct shoulder belts.
I understand he is trying to "add" some more security with being able to use shoulder belts, BUT I think a low impact hit and it will be toast.

Maybe ask the company for a babystroller version and try it out with a "cabbage-patch doll" ?? LOL

Seriously though, have you got a link from ebay? I would like to see how these are advertised/claimed.
 
After seeing the photo of one in carnage what would you do should that bend the other way with your children in the back? Nobody forsees an accident but......
 
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