I think the grease zerk was knocked off by hitting the exhaust.on page 5 you can see a dent in the tie rod end and a good size dent in the exhaust pipe so its hitting pretty hard.Unless the tierod ends is about to pop out and is so loose its lifting up in a turn I don't feel it's that.This whole issue was with the steering box loose so I think once that issue is fixed we will be able see if that fixed it or move to another possiblity.I feel it's more aliegnment than parts but thats just my opinion from 600 miles away at a computer screen.I'd love to look at this thing in person.
Pitman arm is hitting tortion bar! Help?
- Thread starter 73moparman
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Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
I am glad that I am not the only one that is seeing the same think I do. When I am alone on seeing something it makes me question if I am off base. I have looked at the ES319 series tie rods and the ES401 series tie rod pictures on the net but without the parts sitting side by side I can't tell a difference and there is a possibility that all the pictures I was trying to compare were generic. Since the OP didn't assemble the modifications it is possible he has an import part that is just manufactured wrong but still was the correct part number.
The only thing about that is if its was a 1/4" shorter it would still hit by the looks of that dent in the exhaust.Ynless thats not the right exhaust for that car.The whole setup looks higher in his car compared to the control arm than the picture autoxcuda posted
I see what your seeing the only thing is he has this car topped out on the torsion bar (very stiff) and it still hits.If it was lowered to normal ride height it set on the torsion bar,so to me and this is my opinion something is out of aliaghnment and I'm just scratching my head over it lol.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
It can't be alignment to do with the tie rods unluss the one in question is worn because all the adjustments are after the point of the problems. The pitman arm and the idler arm is going to set the center link in the position as far as the height. Tow in and tow out is set by the tie rod adjustment sleeves. Camber and caster wouldn't change the position of the center link.
True but by aliaghnment I was reffering to the k frame or steering box mount maybe being replaced or the fact that it was wrecked and it may be twisted or the fact that the steering box was loose.Something in that nature.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
The headers on these cars have always caused problems with steering linkages. You can go back through the archives and read thread after thread about that issue. The headers do hang too low and the ride tension is set high on the torsion bar according to the OP so that is a possibility. Looking at the OP's avatar the car doesn't look that high though.
I am like you, I just would like to find the answer(s) because I am puzzled.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
Look at the major difference in there tie rod ends. The new one is a Rare Parts tie rod end. The Rare Parts tie rod end may be just as tall because the bends may be deeper. Also when you look at the new pitman arm you will notice that it is machined around the top. Was the 72 back machined, I don't remember?
Below is a 1968 A-Body pitman arm and it doesn't appear to be machined around the top near as much as the OPs pitman arm is.
Below is a 1968 A-Body pitman arm and it doesn't appear to be machined around the top near as much as the OPs pitman arm is.
I just checked my 70' and it looks the same as the 68' picture except mine has a machined lip in the caseing not the bolt shaft where the center link connects.Also mine and the 68 insert from the bottom of the center link where he's inserts from the top.Look at the major difference in there tie rod ends. The new one is a Rare Parts tie rod end. The Rare Parts tie rod end may be just as tall because the bends may be deeper. Also when you look at the new pitman arm you will notice that it is machined around the top. Was the 72 back machined, I don't remember?
Below is a 1968 A-Body pitman arm and it doesn't appear to be machined around the top near as much as the OPs pitman arm is.
autoxcuda
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The throwing parts comment was not aimed at you. There were post suggesting parts and as far as buying a whole parts car.
I can tell the original poster is getting fustrated and I just don't want to scare him away from this car.
I have all the 73-76 suspension parts including whole K-member loose, new, and cleaned we are talking about. I can measure and take pictures them Thursday or Friday night. Also, my car has a 73-76 K-member and can take pics and measurements off.
I think we need to what to see what is going on with that steering box. Then move to the next thing.
Even if that tie rod is high, there should be enough room. But like others have said; could be a combination of problems making that more of an issue than it should. I'll get a tie rod installed in centerlink measurement when I can take pictures.
I can tell the original poster is getting fustrated and I just don't want to scare him away from this car.
I have all the 73-76 suspension parts including whole K-member loose, new, and cleaned we are talking about. I can measure and take pictures them Thursday or Friday night. Also, my car has a 73-76 K-member and can take pics and measurements off.
I think we need to what to see what is going on with that steering box. Then move to the next thing.
Even if that tie rod is high, there should be enough room. But like others have said; could be a combination of problems making that more of an issue than it should. I'll get a tie rod installed in centerlink measurement when I can take pictures.
I mentioned about worn bolts and elongated hole in the K-Frame as being a possibility earlier in this thread. Another member thought about the welds on the nuts being broke loose. Another member thought about the bolts having shoulders on them and the possibility they are bottoming out before the steering gear box is tight. The OP has stated that he isn't removing any of the steering gear box bolts until Thursday when he is installing his new one so any additional information there is not available at this time. Another possibility is the center link is bent down in the middle and has caused the tie rod end to be raised.
It would help if someone that has 73 up would be kind enough to take some measurements for the OP to compare. I am still not convinced that the tie rod end isn't too tall and when you look compare these pictures you can see a big difference in the height. A measurement from the top of the center link to the top of the tie rod end being supplied by a member would be a great benifit to eliminate my thoughts. There is a reason that they changed from an ES319 seriers tie rod to an ES401 series tie rod but maintained the ES319S tie rod adjusting sleeve. When members here have changed their pre 1973 drum brakes over to large bolt pattern disc brakes they have maintained their original tie rod set up so that makes me think the tapered shaft on the tie rod end remained the same diameter and length. I have never said throw parts at this car other than using a complete V8 spool K-Frame set up from a donor car (rusted grocery getter) so the OP will know what parts are really there.
Known facts are that the steering gear box is coming loose plus the tie rod end is hitting the torsion bar and headers. It would be logical that one of the problems is causing the other. As stated by another member the steering gear boxes have a known issue of working loose and that is why the threads are loc-tited. If the steering gear box is coming loose and the assembly is moving up the tie rod end could be hitting because of it. When the tie rod end (you can see a worn spot on it in one of the pictures) is hitting the torsion bar it could be knocking the bolts loose on the steering gear box. At this point I think this car has an ES319 series tie rod on it and it is too tall based off the pictures posted below. Now this is my opinion and I may be absolutely wrong and Lord knows it won't be the first time.
Tie Rod End looks like it is sitting shorter to the center link when compared to Pitman Arm. It also shows a grease zerk.
Tie Rod End looks like it is sitting taller to the center link when compared to Pitman Arm. It also shows no grease zerk.
Tie Rod End looks like it is sitting shorter to the center link when compared to Pitman Arm. It also shows a grease zerk.
73moparman
Well-Known Member
I currently have the whole front end tore out of my duster. Im putting on new power steering box in because the one i have is all loose and shot. Im putting new lower control arm bushings in because the drivers side one was shot. Have the steering box bolts out and layin under the car and they dont appear to be damaged or ground up...
lugnut1962
Banned
I have read almost every post on this thread. All I can figure out is I am planning to put my new front end together in the next couple weeks......and I just know now I'm gonna screw it up.....
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
That was mentioned by a member quite early in this thread. That would cause the torsion bar to be in a different location then it should be. In my head I never could figure out what direction the torsion bar would move with a bad bushing.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
You won't have any problems with things fitting if you are the first one in to it and have the right parts. You will likely run in to a pain in the butt part that don't want to come off but that is just part of it. Take plenty of pictures before and during the tear down so if you get confused about something you will be able to have a reference. Not knowing what was used and what was done before you is where the problems begin.
lugnut1962
Banned
Yeah, already half done. K Frame powder coated, everything else bead blasted and painted. New bushings already in the control arms.....Just need to remember how to put it back together, without "redoing" something 3 times....AAAHHHHHH...
I wish you would have tightened the steering box back up just to see if that was the issue,guess we will wait till you put it all back together:happy1:.
You need to remember, to get the geometry correct on the front steering linkage, shims are required with the steering box and the idler arm. It's all in the Mopar Suspension Manual.
73moparman
Well-Known Member
Where do you put the shims at? I got all my parts and im about ready to put it all back together..
73moparman
Well-Known Member
View attachment pitman arm and new steering box.jpg
Pitman arm and new steering box
Pitman arm and new steering box
The only shims I'm familiar with are the metal washers that should have come with the Idler Arm. Just make sure the center link is level using the washers between the frame bracket and the idler arm. Check for instructions in the box..........
73moparman
Well-Known Member
I took the idler arm and centerlink off there was no shims anywhere. The only shim was on the pitman arm and it was like a really thick washer..
The shims are placed between the gearbox and the K frame to get the steering geometry correct. Likewise, the idler arm bracket can be filed and shimmed to adjust the geometry on the passenger's side. It's all about getting the two pivot points the same height at the same angle. Again, the Mopar Performance Suspension Manual covers all of this. I would not try to do what you're doing without one.
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