Pitman arm is hitting tortion bar! Help?

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StrokerScamp said:
The shims are placed between the gearbox and the K frame to get the steering geometry correct. Likewise, the idler arm bracket can be filed and shimmed to adjust the geometry on the passenger's side. It's all about getting the two pivot points the same height at the same angle. Again, the Mopar Performance Suspension Manual covers all of this. I would not try to do what you're doing without one.
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There are currently no shims anywhere in my steering systen. Where can i get a Mopar Performance Suspension Manual?
 
Unless someone has gone to the trouble to correctly set up a Mopar front suspension, there usually are no shims. Mancini Racing regularly runs them on sale for like 10 bucks. I promise, once you see and read it, you'll see it is not hard at all. It is all grammar school geometry. Really nothing to it.
 
StrokerScamp said:
Unless someone has gone to the trouble to correctly set up a Mopar front suspension, there usually are no shims. Mancini Racing regularly runs them on sale for like 10 bucks. I promise, once you see and read it, you'll see it is not hard at all. It is all grammar school geometry. Really nothing to it.
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Ok thank you..i have the complete front end tore apart right now..working on putting some new parts in..
 
Hay I hope you get it sorted out. Sounds like somebody piece mealed it together. Just take your time and you'll get it figured out.
 
I'm not familiar with what SS is talking about :scratch:, but here's a pic of Idler Arm installation instructions for ya'. Don't get too caught up in all the hype.....it will only confuse you.
 

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The instructions in the MP manual are not hype. It shows exactly how to properly set up a factory Mopar front suspension measurement by measurement. Most people don't go to the trouble and usually have decent results. However, since he has obviouslyt run into mismatched parts somewhere, I think it's best if he sees how it is supposed to be done dead right. That way, if he runs into a measurement that is mile off, He will know there's another incorrect part.
 
6pk2goDemon said:
I'm not familiar with what SS is talking about :scratch:, but here's a pic of Idler Arm installation instructions for ya'. Don't get too caught up in all the hype.....it will only confuse you.
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Thank you when i start re assembling everything i will refer to this.
 
StrokerScamp said:
The instructions in the MP manual are not hype. It shows exactly how to properly set up a factory Mopar front suspension measurement by measurement. Most people don't go to the trouble and usually have decent results. However, since he has obviouslyt run into mismatched parts somewhere, I think it's best if he sees how it is supposed to be done dead right. That way, if he runs into a measurement that is mile off, He will know there's another incorrect part.
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Can you find that manual for me and give me a link to it somehow?
 
73moparman said:
Just ordered it thanks..
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What you want for basics begins on page 336 entitled "Basic Steering Linkage Adjustment". There's a ton of graphs and charts in the section before that. Don't get lost in those. Just go to page 336, and look at the diagram on page 337 figure 7-67. THEN you'll see what I am talking about. There is also an illustration (7-68) on 337 regarding the steering box shim location and how they affect the "L1" measurement. You'll see. It is VERY simple and easy to understand. These cars were actually set up like this from the factory. That's exactly how it was done. Then, you can go on to page 338 and it shows you exactly how to position the idler arm correctly by filing the idler arm bracket holes (7-69) and using the proper shims there to adjust the "R1" measurement. It's simple. "L1" is the point where the pitman arm joins the center link and "R1" is the point where the idler arm joins the center link. These two points need to be the same distance from the floor with the wheels pointing straight ahead. You will see how to accomplish that and more. It is very simple to get it all correct.
 
StrokerScamp said:
What you want for basics begins on page 336 entitled "Basic Steering Linkage Adjustment". There's a ton of graphs and charts in the section before that. Don't get lost in those. Just go to page 336, and look at the diagram on page 337 figure 7-67. THEN you'll see what I am talking about. There is also an illustration (7-68) on 337 regarding the steering box shim location and how they affect the "L1" measurement. You'll see. It is VERY simple and easy to understand. These cars were actually set up like this from the factory. That's exactly how it was done. Then, you can go on to page 338 and it shows you exactly how to position the idler arm correctly by filing the idler arm bracket holes (7-69) and using the proper shims there to adjust the "R1" measurement. It's simple. "L1" is the point where the pitman arm joins the center link and "R1" is the point where the idler arm joins the center link. These two points need to be the same distance from the floor with the wheels pointing straight ahead. You will see how to accomplish that and more. It is very simple to get it all correct.
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Thanks you have a been a big help. I overnighted that book to my house and im going to get right to it tomorrow...
 
Good deal....and my apologies....I mis spoke about L1 and R1. L1 is where the LEFT inner tie rod attaches to the center link and R1 is where the RIGHT inner tie rod attaches to the center link. Sorry for the mistake. I have been disabled a while so I have not set one up in a good bit, but I have done them a lot right by the book and it works well.
 
Just starting to put the front together in my stock v8 73 duster tonight.

If you need any pics, PM me and I will post them on here.

What I have done is new lower control arm bushings, torsion bars, ball joints, tie rods and ends.
I will put the upper contol arms and strut bars in tomorrow.

The three pieces that I did not change is the following: center link, idler arm (new from PO already on the car but from unknown origin) and which looks to be the original power steering pitman arm (changing over to manual this winter not worth the effort).

If you need any pics please PM me, this car is in the air photo's are easy to obtain.
 
StrokerScamp said:
What you want for basics begins on page 336 entitled "Basic Steering Linkage Adjustment". There's a ton of graphs and charts in the section before that. Don't get lost in those. Just go to page 336, and look at the diagram on page 337 figure 7-67. THEN you'll see what I am talking about. There is also an illustration (7-68) on 337 regarding the steering box shim location and how they affect the "L1" measurement. You'll see. It is VERY simple and easy to understand. These cars were actually set up like this from the factory. That's exactly how it was done. Then, you can go on to page 338 and it shows you exactly how to position the idler arm correctly by filing the idler arm bracket holes (7-69) and using the proper shims there to adjust the "R1" measurement. It's simple. "L1" is the point where the pitman arm joins the center link and "R1" is the point where the idler arm joins the center link. These two points need to be the same distance from the floor with the wheels pointing straight ahead. You will see how to accomplish that and more. It is very simple to get it all correct.
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That is the procedure for bump steer adjustment for a race car. Yes, it will help street cars. But should be overkill for what you are doing. It is not a normal procedure for this car and is not covered in the factory repair manual. That is just going to confuse you more.

I totally disagree that is the next step you need to do to you car. And no reason you needed to pay $$ to overnight the MP Race Chassis book to your house. And you really need a good measurement device or make one to get the bumpsteer right.

Your car should not need that adjustment. That would be a total last resort. You just want to get it back to stock and where the tie rod is not rubbing the T-bar.

I'll get some acuate measurments of parts tonight....

After looking for all damage, incorrect parts, bad adjustments, etc...then go into the bumpsteer shim and slot deal as described in the MP book.
 
No, it is for "basic linkage alignment" just like the book says. It says that most cars probably will be fine with regular alignment, but his car is not most cars. He obviously has had some mismatched parts and I strongly believe he will benefit from making sure all the measurements are square and true. I don't really care, it's not my car. I am simply trying to help a fellow member and am argued down as spreading "hype" and "race car" stuff. I did this for a living for a long time and I can tell you I can spot a trouble car...and his is one. I wouldn't let that thing outta my shop without double checking everything on it and I wouldn't recommend anything less for a friend. Yall argue it however you want. I'm out.
 
autoxcuda said:
That is the procedure for bump steer adjustment for a race car. Yes, it will help street cars. But should be overkill for what you are doing. It is not a normal procedure for this car and is not covered in the factory repair manual. That is just going to confuse you more.
I totally disagree that is the next step you need to do to you car. And no reason you needed to pay $$ to overnight the MP Race Chassis book to your house. And you really need a good measurement device or make one to get the bumpsteer right.

Your car should not need that adjustment. That would be a total last resort. You just want to get it back to stock and where the tie rod is not rubbing the T-bar.
I'll get some acuate measurments of parts tonight....
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Thx for chiming in.....:thumrigh:
 
StrokerScamp said:
No, it is for "basic linkage alignment" just like the book says. It says that most cars probably will be fine with regular alignment, but his car is not most cars. He obviously has had some mismatched parts and I strongly believe he will benefit from making sure all the measurements are square and true. I don't really care, it's not my car. I am simply trying to help a fellow member and am argued down as spreading "hype" and "race car" stuff. I did this for a living for a long time and I can tell you I can spot a trouble car...and his is one. I wouldn't let that thing outta my shop without double checking everything on it and I wouldn't recommend anything less for a friend. Yall argue it however you want. I'm out.
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Sounds like you did great and thorough alignment work. But the original poster doesn't seem to have that background, tools, or equipment. I agree with your this car needs everything double checked.

Just I think all that double checking need to happen before the shimming the box. That's all. I'm not ruling that out nor is it just race car or hype. I've bumpsteered the late model race car I help with many times. I just feel he hasn't checked everything else yet.
 
73-76 Pitman and tie rod clearance to my old .99" torsion bars pictures. Those .99"T-bar were thicker than stock .87" A/C-340-360 or V-8 non A/C .85" T-bars. So you should have a little more clearance.

Not real happy with this picture. I want to give you a measurement between the centerlink end and the T-bar and/or frame rail. More pics to come...
 

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Here is a measurement of the Moog ES 352L and ES 352R tie rods these are the same part number as the ones in the picture of my car above. They are the 11/16 Tie Rod vs. the factory 9/16 thread size.
 

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Here is the ES 352 11/16" tie rod installed in a 73-76 A-body centerlink.
 

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73-76 A-body center link outer tie rod holes are center of hole to center of hole 23 1/2" (+/- 1/16" on the measurment).
 
On my 73-76 K-member setup there is enough room between the pitman and my new 1.14" T-bars to very tight fit a 3/8 drive 1/2" socket. Look closely, there is a shiny chrome socket between the edge of the pitman arm and the bottom of the torsion bar. That distance measures out at 0.726"

With .85" or .87" torsion bars you should have .135" and .145 more room respectively.

So you should have about somewhere around 3/4" to 7/8". Maybe 1/2" between pitman and torsion bar.

73Moparman, can you get a measurement like this?
 

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