manhours for front suspension rebuild?

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1969dodgedartgt

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How many man hours should a full PST front end rebuild take?

I'd like to know how long a professional should take to do it, and how long it would take a beginner like myself...

I'm pretty sure it would take me a couple days but would hope to be done in a week, while also doing other things. sound reasonable?
 
its not really a hard job. biggest time consuming things to do are cleaning everything ( not so sure a shop would be bothered with this) then installing the upper ball joint and pressing in the new bushings if you don't have the tools at home to do so..
 
Call your local Mopar dealership service department. They should still have the man-hours needed per job on file.
 
I would say about 5-7 hours including alignment.
 
Are you looking for book labor man-hours or a realistic estimate of what it might take for you (or an average guy) to complete it ?

I did one side at a time. I used to be real good at front ends, but I am rusty (like my car).

Time is per side
Remove spindle- 45 min (most time was UBJ)
Remove UBJ from UCA- 45 min (1st side with air chisel) 5 min (2nd side with BJ socket)
Remove UCA- 20 min
Press out/in UCA bushings- 20 min
Reinstall UCA- 15 min
Install and torque UBJ- 10 min
Remove strut rod, T bar and LCA- 30 min (got lucky)
Press out/in LCA bushing- 45 min (had to adjust it twice and measure other side)
Install and torque strut rod bushings and rod- 20 min
Install LCA- 10 sec
Install new T bar boot- 45 min
Install T bar- 15 min
Instal land torque LBJ and spindle- 25 min
Remove tie rod ends- 10- 20 min ea
Reinstall tie rod ends- 10 min
replace pittman and idler arms- 15 min each
Set ride height- 15 min
 
When I was 26, replaced every moving part on my 70 RR front end inside a weekend

Now that I'm in my 60's, about a month
 
When I was 26, replaced every moving part on my 70 RR front end inside a weekend

Now that I'm in my 60's, about a month

Exactly!! I fought one of the rusted cam bolts on each side for a couple of hours each. Finally hit them with the air hammer to drive them out.

If a guy new what he was doing and had all the proper tools including a lift, press and air tools, I would think that it could be done in 8-10 hours. But nothing ever goes as planned...
 
It's a bit hard to estimate not knowing your degree of skill and supply of tools and equipment. A front end shop would only need 4 hours to do the whole job as a simple repair (they'll probably charge you for eight) but they're used to doing it on a daily basis. Most of us would want to do a restoration while we're at it. That will take a LOT more time to clean, blast, prime, paint, etc. I would recommend you get a complete spare set of parts and restore them at your leasure and then once they're all ready, do the swap. If you plan on owning the car for a long time, it's always good to have some spare parts on hand for future repairs. A simple R&R of the parts should only take a few hours even for a novice.
 
How many man hours should a full PST front end rebuild take?

I'd like to know how long a professional should take to do it, and how long it would take a beginner like myself...

I'm pretty sure it would take me a couple days but would hope to be done in a week, while also doing other things. sound reasonable?

Keep us posted on your progress,as I'mgoing to do the same on my 64 Dart,
Just trying to decide on PST or Moog
Thanks Moe
 
I installed a PST kit and a alignment tech and I took 8 hours including alignment.
It'll take a weekend if you do it yourself. tmm
 
The parts replacement is about 6 hrs, with the right tools. You don't need a lift, but you'll probably miss air tools if you don't have them and you need the torsion bar tool and a press. The time like Joe said is in the details. Degreasing, blasting, painting, the "might as wells" like the brakes, and detailing that stuff, then the alignment. It will much more expensive if you want it to look new too and you want to pay for it.
 
I would say a shop would charge you around 8-10 hrs. Like guys have said they are not gonna degrease sand blast paint, unless you take it to a resto shop or someone that specializes.
 
it depends on how far you are going with it, straight parts replacement with every thing sitting in front of you should take less than a day but then things can break and some pieces may fight you if your playing with old parts that havent been loosened for a while. if your going to clean and prep and paint everything youll want to take a little time with it and lube and grease and retighten parts as you go and that could take a couple or three days . if you depend on your auto as your only means of transpo then a solid weekend and you will be good to go. with my charger, i spent 5 hrs tearing it all apart and about 2 days cleaning and painting and it all went back together in just a few hours, and that included taking every piece off even the k member and steering box .
 

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The parts replacement is about 6 hrs, with the right tools. You don't need a lift, but you'll probably miss air tools if you don't have them and you need the torsion bar tool and a press. The time like Joe said is in the details. Degreasing, blasting, painting, the "might as wells" like the brakes, and detailing that stuff, then the alignment. It will much more expensive if you want it to look new too and you want to pay for it.


mmm i have air tools or one impact wrench, but what is a torsion bar tool?

I did change my link ends out before and removed my torsion bar and put it back on, with a LOT of effort, but needed no tool... maybe I should have had?
 
Keep us posted on your progress,as I'mgoing to do the same on my 64 Dart,
Just trying to decide on PST or Moog
Thanks Moe


In my opinion PST sells junk. Last kit I got from them was for my 64 Dart. They didn't include hardware such as castle nuts and cotter pins. I am sticking with Firm Feel. Good NW company
 
where are you exactly located in CA? if not too far i could come on down and help you out....ive built 4 front ends so far...its easy...i have all the right tools for the mopar front end..
 
my GTS was easier than my Super Bee.

Dart came apart easily, I did put 1+" T bars, Hotchkis big sway bar, strut arm bushings and KYBs in. F%#$'d up an upper A frame bushing when pressing back together....so that took a bit to locate just "one" new one. Also did lower ball joints, tie rods, so when we were done, every aspect of alignment was "off".

The Super Bee must have had water pool in the upper A frames, so the UBJ were rust welded in. Had to replace Upper A frames and new BJs. inner and outer tie rods and steering box/pitman arm....I mean, if you're in there, you might as well do it right!

Get the car up where you can work on it easily, cause your going to be making love to it for a while with hand tools....start penetrating oil about a week in advance and remember patience....

Just my .02
 
where are you exactly located in CA? if not too far i could come on down and help you out....ive built 4 front ends so far...its easy...i have all the right tools for the mopar front end..


nice.... I'm in 94043 now. not too far from you... help would really be nice, what rebuilt kits have you used and do you recommend?

I'll get one bought soon and give you a pm
 
When I did my 65 Dart a year or so ago, it was much elapsed time, so hard to say. Most of my time was spent wire-brushing rust and repainting. I had Carquest press in the bushings which wasn't cheap and I now have a shop press to do such at home. I have heard of shops ruining LCA's because they don't support them correctly when pressing.

You could spend hours/days trying to disconnect the ball joints if you don't know the tricks or have the right tools. The tough one is the lower ball joint into the LCA, since few pullers will fit in there. The FSM shows a special tool which is a "pusher bolt & nut" you jam in there and turn to push down on the ball joint stud. You might make one from hardware store parts. Next time, I'll try the "2 hammer method", which you can find on a Mustang site. With the suspension still assembled and the wheels hanging, so the torsion bar is helping pull down on the lower ball joint, and the stud nut loosened, strike the LCA end simultaneously on both sides with 2 hammers. It is supposed to make the metal oscillate enough that the ball joint stud just falls out. Of course, squirt WD-40 on it a day before. Sounds like that was a classic mechanics trick.

Make sure you get the strut rod bushings with the "improved design". When I got a PST kit decades ago, it had the one piece "original design" that you are supposed to squeeze thru the K-frame hole. You might spend hours on that and it is a crappy design since the frame cuts thru the rubber over time.

In my experience, the kits cost more than shopping around for indivdual parts, and often are lower quality. Original Moog parts are good, but newer Moog is mostly made in China or India. Check your parts before you buy. I re-used my upper ball joints and my steering linkage joints since they all seemed tight, but I did put on new polyurethane boots and removed all to de-rust and paint. You need a special socket to remove the upper ball joint, which is different for early ('72-, smaller) and later ('73+, larger) models. Many clueless shops have pressed them out and ruined a customer's UCA. They screw in. You can use a large pipe wrench, but it will scratch the paint.

Re alignment, search on the web for do-it-yourself (a jeep site). If your tires have straight tread it is easy to measure with a tape measure and set the toe-in, which is the most critical adjustment. I have done that on several cars and they drive perfectly, the steering wheel is straight, and no abnormal tire wear. It did take several iterations to perfect it, and keep notes about which way and how much to turn the tie rod adjusters or you will be at it all day. The car must be on the ground and the ride height adjusted first. Adjusting toe-in is mainly so you can drive safely to an alignment shop after a major rebuild. Camber you can do with a carpenter's level and it is an owner's preference (most incline the wheels in at the top more than FSM). Caster requires a shop or special tools. Most cars I adjusted (minivans) don't have a caster adjustment or I didn't touch it if they did (300D). On a Dart with radial tires, you need all the caster you can get (line thru ball joint centers in front of tire patch on road).
 
nice.... I'm in 94043 now. not too far from you... help would really be nice, what rebuilt kits have you used and do you recommend?

I'll get one bought soon and give you a pm

I've used just suspension and pst...both are good...The most recent stuff I've used was buying all my parts individually from rockauto.com. I know most say moog is made in china, they probably are, but i havent had any problems so far with them...theres a link somewhere out there about just suspension's ball joints....seem to be pretty good...
 
man those kits are expensive, I think i will have to wait 1.5 weeks until next payday to order...
 
ok, I priced all the pieces that come in the PST kit on rock auto.
I looked at both the best "Ray Bestos Pro" pieces and the cheep moog pieces, total comes from 534 to 320 so I could be saving or spending about 100 more than the 439 for the PST kit.

So now the question is: what parts are maybe worth spending extra on and getting the potentially higher quality parts for? are should I or should I not spend extra for the Ray Bestos parts?...

also I'm not sure about how many of the following I need
lower control arm bushings
outer tie rod ends
inner tie rod ends

I think its 2 of each of these, is that right?
 
If you havent done this before I encourage you to do it yourself. You learn a lot about your car. It may take you longer but saving you cash. I did mine myself even though I had never done anything remotely close. It went well.
 
The torsion bar tool properly grabs the bar and gives you a place to hit with a hammer to push the bar back and out of the arm without damaging the bars. Any nicks in the surface can cause a bar to break under load.
I still order the Moog stuff seperately from my local Car Quest. I've used PST before and the kit parts were equal to the cheaper lines of crap most retail stores sell. The Moog is visually the same, comes with all the hardware, has decent boots, and lasts well. I've replaced the cheaper line stuff within 2-3 years, which up here means under 4K miles. It's Moog all the way for me. Bushings I get energy suspension poly, except the lower control arms, which are Moog rubber.
 
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