The MOPAR power myth?

[rumblefish360]

Sounds like u don`t know sh-- about hemi`s to me !-----Talking 426 style heads.

That would be SEMI correct.

I certainly didn’t think I’d be called out on racing tech and dynamics of the C or F camp tech of racing classes I can only view from a far distance until the recently invented internet allowed me to get up close in pictures (if provided by the race teams) and inside knowledge to the tech (again, if provided by the race teams) of how this extremely expensive level of racing works.

When I made my comment, the thought process was more on my the average Joe Shmo in the street and mild racer.

Not million dollar race classes.

But funkin A if your willing to have a school session!
Allow me to pull up a chair!
Paper and pencil are at the ready!

And with that said, my first question is;

1:
Does a HEMI head out flow and have a better quality flow vs a Wedge Head in our MoPars of the classic era we currently mess with?

2:
Doesn’t the HEMI valve have less shrouding vs a wedge head?
3:
Isn’t there a great flow potential than a wedge head?

 

[famous bob]

That would be SEMI correct.

I certainly didn’t think I’d be called out on racing tech and dynamics of the C or F camp tech of racing classes I can only view from a far distance until the recently invented internet allowed me to get up close in pictures (if provided by the race teams) and inside knowledge to the tech (again, if provided by the race teams) of how this extremely expensive level of racing works.

When I made my comment, the thought process was more on my the average Joe Shmo in the street and mild racer.

Not million dollar race classes.

But funkin A if your willing to have a school session!
Allow me to pull up a chair!
Paper and pencil are at the ready!

And with that said, my first question is;

1:
Does a HEMI head out flow and have a better quality flow vs a Wedge Head in our MoPars of the classic era we currently mess with?

2:
Doesn’t the HEMI valve have less shrouding vs a wedge head?
3:
Isn’t there a great flow potential than a wedge head?

Corporate rat race heads are not wedge type heads, they are highly canted(twisted), and therefore can run larger valves, and hence-more cam . They will make more power than the hemi, that's why u don`t see any hemi`s in prostock any more. U are comparing a hemi to a wedge, I don`t know of any wedge that will flow w/ a hemi head. u started this conversation a little different , I could tell, u never raced a hemi ! The new hemi`s are a let down , unless blown, compared to the brute h.p. of the gen 2 engines. I gotta admit , I don`t know a whole lot about the new ones, but was fairly unimpressed the first time I saw them run at the dragstrip. The bigger , and blown versions are pretty impressive. I`d have one in a heartbeat if I could afford it !~

 

[rumblefish360]

Well, so far you haven’t told me anything new or answered my questions and, AND, you assume to much.

The only thing you are correct on is what I have already admitted.

And of course I’m comparing a Chrysler HEMI head to a wedge.!
Oh! Start what?
Big buzzer sound for you! Wrong!!!!!!!
Go back and read again.... see ya later gator!

Ho hum boring!

Come on Bob!
Really?!?!

 

[rumblefish360]

@famous bob

When it came to motor sports and HEMI engines, I’d just sit and listen.
Visit my grandfather in law.
Charlie Dodge Hagenmayer
We would talk about having fun. Time was not on our side. Nor was my wallet! LOL!
But he knew.

 

[thesiren74]

Wow winter needs to end! You guys are whiny little bitches lately! This thread got way off track.

 

[rumblefish360]

Bob seems cranky. He is all over me as of late.

Whaaaaaat ever...

Temps are getting nice here. Looking foward to taking apart a small block or two! Maybe I'll get lucky and find some money to get a nice short block together for my long LONG delayed W5 project? Who knows!

 

[Abodybomber]

Bob seems cranky. He is all over me as of late.

Whaaaaaat ever...

Temps are getting nice here. Looking foward to taking apart a small block or two! Maybe I'll get lucky and find some money to get a nice short block together for my long LONG delayed W5 project? Who knows!

ROB , I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT....

 

[famous bob]

Bob seems cranky. He is all over me as of late.

Whaaaaaat ever...

Temps are getting nice here. Looking foward to taking apart a small block or two! Maybe I'll get lucky and find some money to get a nice short block together for my long LONG delayed W5 project? Who knows!

THAT`S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN U GET OLDER, ONE DOESN`T CARE FOR PEOPLE STATING CRAP THAT DON`T KNOW WHAT THEIR TALKING ABOUT. Didn`t u say there is nothing that can out flow a hemi head , more or less?

 

[rumblefish360]

THAT`S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN U GET OLDER, ONE DOESN`T CARE FOR PEOPLE STATING CRAP THAT DON`T KNOW WHAT THEIR TALKING ABOUT.

Then you should STFU & here’s why...

Didn`t u say there is nothing that can out flow a hemi head , more or less?

No!

What I said? Is re-read-able above. I said nothing “More or Less!”
What I said was
“Superior head, superior flow.”

I never put it in a pecking order, you did assume right in that the comparison was to a wedge head. Wasn’t that what we were talking about? MoPar heads? Mopar Performance? I don’t give a flip about what car brand C,F or what ever has since I’m not running there equipment. If they have magical heads sprinkled with pixie dust that flow 900 cfm @ .600 lift, well fuckin A for them because I don’t give a rats tail!

The only other thing you got right was that I never raced a HEMI.

And sooooo freakin what!!!!

There are a lot of engines and engine related things I haven’t done. You seem to be the only one who gives a flip and brag about it.
Who gives a flip Bob? Who really gives a flip about your “I am the King because I raced a HEMI for 17 years!”

The only thing you have done worth wagging a tongue over recently is make an *** out of yourself via miss reading and assuming post meanings by me in this thread while side stepping honest questions to Bally Ho about yourself while attempting to do what? Trash me because you can’t read? Compression is out the door?

Do yourself a favor!

Go back and re read the thread.
Realize your getting worked up over nothing.
Come back and relax.
If you feel up to it, answer my questions.

If you feel so inclined to tell us all here about the latest and greatest cylinder head design, please do.

Until then, STFU & get off my ***.


Sincerely yours.

 

[famous bob]

Then you should STFU & here’s why...

No!

What I said? Is re-read-able above. I said nothing “More or Less!”
What I said was
“Superior head, superior flow.”

I never put it in a pecking order, you did assume right in that the comparison was to a wedge head. Wasn’t that what we were talking about? MoPar heads? Mopar Performance? I don’t give a flip about what car brand C,F or what ever has since I’m not running there equipment. If they have magical heads sprinkled with pixie dust that flow 900 cfm @ .600 lift, well fuckin A for them because I don’t give a rats tail!

The only other thing you got right was that I never raced a HEMI.

And sooooo freakin what!!!!

There are a lot of engines and engine related things I haven’t done. You seem to be the only one who gives a flip and brag about it.
Who gives a flip Bob? Who really gives a flip about your “I am the King because I raced a HEMI for 17 years!”

The only thing you have done worth wagging a tongue over recently is make an *** out of yourself via miss reading and assuming post meanings by me in this thread while side stepping honest questions to Bally Ho about yourself while attempting to do what? Trash me because you can’t read? Compression is out the door?

Do yourself a favor!

Go back and re read the thread.
Realize your getting worked up over nothing.
Come back and relax.
If you feel up to it, answer my questions.

If you feel so inclined to tell us all here about the latest and greatest cylinder head design, please do.

Until then, STFU & get off my ***.


Sincerely yours.

Well, in the first place, let me start off by saying , "You can kiss mine !" That being said, I could have misunderstood what u were saying. But, there are people all the time on here talking about something they know nothing about. YOU talking about hemi`s, struck me as one !! I simply could tell u knew nothing about them. If the truth hurts ---- you ! END OF CONVERSATION --OUT OF HERE

 

[rumblefish360]

Well, in the first place, let me start off by saying , "You can kiss mine !" That being said, I could have misunderstood what u were saying. But, there are people all the time on here talking about something they know nothing about. YOU talking about hemi`s, struck me as one !! I simply could tell u knew nothing about them. If the truth hurts ---- you ! END OF CONVERSATION --OUT OF HERE

No no! Don’t leave!

Agreed agreed agreed

The truth don’t hurt and I’ll say it out loud!
I don’t know enough about drag racing a HEMI to fill the front page of a pamphlet!!!

And that is nothing to be ashamed of.

And no worries! It’s not like I hate you! LMAO!
It’s all good!

 

[famous bob]

No no! Don’t leave!

Agreed agreed agreed

The truth don’t hurt and I’ll say it out loud!
I don’t know enough about drag racing a HEMI to fill the front page of a pamphlet!!!

And that is nothing to be ashamed of.

And no worries! It’s not like I hate you! LMAO!
It’s all good!

COOL, APOLOGIES ACCEPTED AND GIVEN ---------

 

[rumblefish360]

Thank you and thank you, like I said, no worries, it’s all good!

 

[famous bob]

Thank you and thank you, like I said, no worries, it’s all good!

-----------------WE BE GOOD ?????????? LOL

 

[fishmens67]

you can sure tell who the young bucks are. lol they don't even know that Mopar ruled the drag strip and the streets in the 60's and early 70's. wasn't that the muscle era.
you want to bash Mopar because it's a little more money to keep up with brand X now.
stick a brand X motor in your Mopar and be like everyone else. I'll keep my Mopar all Mopar and be like the elite few. lol
If it's so expensive to build a Mopar, I must be rich. or poor. I don't know. my wife still seems happy. lol

 

[famous bob]

you can sure tell who the young bucks are. lol they don't even know that Mopar ruled the drag strip and the streets in the 60's and early 70's. wasn't that the muscle era.
you want to bash Mopar because it's a little more money to keep up with brand X now.
stick a brand X motor in your Mopar and be like everyone else. I'll keep my Mopar all Mopar and be like the elite few. lol
If it's so expensive to build a Mopar, I must be rich. or poor. I don't know. my wife still seems happy. lol

Wondering who u are calling a young buck !! I been called a few diff. things, but ain`t been called that in about 4-50 yrs !!-------LOL 426 Hemi`s are still the coolest engine on the planet.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I grew up with "MOPAR makes power."

When I got my first one i figured I would keep it all Ma, but now I just don't know.

The rear ends ain't great, so swap a 8 3/4 or 9" or 60.
Trans, ehhh.... Also just ok...

Let's be honest the bottom end, oiling, geometry, and heads are ehh....not the best...

The cost is stupid, so what the hell....

I'm 8K Into my 512 and it's not done. Aint even seen the machine shop yet....

Why?
Cost per HP just don't add up.

The dark side is calling....

You're building a big block, what geometry issue are you talking? I see where you're coming from, but you have to remember that mopar engines are for thinkers, brand x is for drinkers that litter cheap beer cans all over tour shop, track, yard and meanwhile talk about how superior their x mill is... but the only thing they can tell you about it is ..was built by so n so and big buck race motor.
I'll let you think about that.
Go look at the fast chevies/Ford's and none have a factory head with half also after market blocks. Only sbf worth building is a 347/408 stroker, chevies can't fit much inside so go get a taller block...now fix the valve angle, have a look at the good sbc heads sometime and watch them copy mopar valve angles bla bla bla. No secret.
Chevies set trends, yes, like buying all new connecting rods, heads. You have to know more about these things, history. If you have ever machined a 350,454 for instance....you would know how bad they are. You have to literally straighten and untwist the sbc rods, the blocks from some cast batches certain years more than should are know to pin hole in the cylinders, the heads of many #' s were cracking. Chevrolet powered racers were needing to replace everything to compete or not break. So you they redesigned blocks, changed deck height, beefed up cranks, valley girdles, rods,valve geometry, heads, rocker stud hardware etc.

Your big block needs an oil mod , could still use the LY rods if preped right, but why for the price "thanks to chevies needing them at such large scale that if they just cast them a little longer they will machine out to fit any sbm,c,f,bb, etc" good big block heads shouldn't be any big wow to get a hold of.


But hey... go hop on the short bus if it's "easier" for ya.

 

[famous bob]

You're building a big block, what geometry issue are you talking? I see where you're coming from, but you have to remember that mopar engines are for thinkers, brand x is for drinkers that litter cheap beer cans all over tour shop, track, yard and meanwhile talk about how superior their x mill is... but the only thing they can tell you about it is ..was built by so n so and big buck race motor.
I'll let you think about that.
Go look at the fast chevies/Ford's and none have a factory head with half also after market blocks. Only sbf worth building is a 347/408 stroker, chevies can't fit much inside so go get a taller block...now fix the valve angle, have a look at the good sbc heads sometime and watch them copy mopar valve angles bla bla bla. No secret.
Chevies set trends, yes, like buying all new connecting rods, heads. You have to know more about these things, history. If you have ever machined a 350,454 for instance....you would know how bad they are. You have to literally straighten and untwist the sbc rods, the blocks from some cast batches certain years more than should are know to pin hole in the cylinders, the heads of many #' s were cracking. Chevrolet powered racers were needing to replace everything to compete or not break. So you they redesigned blocks, changed deck height, beefed up cranks, valley girdles, rods,valve geometry, heads, rocker stud hardware etc.

Your big block needs an oil mod , could still use the LY rods if preped right, but why for the price "thanks to chevies needing them at such large scale that if they just cast them a little longer they will machine out to fit any sbm,c,f,bb, etc" good big block heads shouldn't be any big wow to get a hold of.
Don`t get me wrong, I`m all mopar. But, u ain`t never seen a b or r/b wedge w/ stock heads that could make "huge" h.p. , it just AIN`T THERE. it`s really a wonder they ever ran as good as they do, given the heads that they came out with. The old max wedge heads can`t flow like the sq. port rat heads. The 426 hemi heads cant be made to flow as much as big rat heads either. How many hemi heads have u seen flow over 600cfm, naturally aspirated ?

 

[rumblefish360]

How many stock chevy heads flow that much? 600 CFM OE Chevy heads? LOL! No way!
Seriously, what do the bbc rat heads flow max ported? And OE HEMI heads?

 

[harrisonm]

I can totally see what some of you are talking about. There is NO question that GM and Ford are much more involved in providing guys like us with excellent performance parts and engines than Mopar. I guess that 20 years of being owned by foreign companies is the killer. Why should Mercedes Benz or Fiat care whether we get the same level of factory high performance support that Ford and GM gives to their fans. That being said, I'll stick with my Mopar brand affiliation, but I will admit that I DO admire the quality and amount of factory support the Ford and GM guys get.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well, I love Mopar stuff and all........but, .......and this is a really GOOD example........From 55 to maybe even now, I'm not sharp on the new stuff, the Chevy small block had real quench heads. Even what they called "open chamber" still had half the combustion chamber as the flat part of the head. Even the open 76cc chamber head.

Building a Chevy with a good, zero deck height and good quench has always been easy.......with factory parts. They can make gobs of power, there's no denying it.

I like being different though. To me, that's what it's all about. I see Chevy now as "you seen one you seen um all." That's about the truth.

 

[famous bob]

Well, I love Mopar stuff and all........but, .......and this is a really GOOD example........From 55 to maybe even now, I'm not sharp on the new stuff, the Chevy small block had real quench heads. Even what they called "open chamber" still had half the combustion chamber as the flat part of the head. Even the open 76cc chamber head.

Building a Chevy with a good, zero deck height and good quench has always been easy.......with factory parts. They can make gobs of power, there's no denying it.

I like being different though. To me, that's what it's all about. I see Chevy now as "you seen one you seen um all." That's about the truth.

Right on. Use to have to run a crowd of Camaros at every race . Everybody and their brother had one !! And 90% of them dumped gas on the starting line when they left !! bastages !

I talked to Curt Johnson a little, one time at a race in k.c., he said the rat heads were flowing well over 500 cfm back then--"years ago", look how much faster they are now !

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Right on. Use to have to run a crowd of Camaros at every race . Everybody and their brother had one !! And 90% of them dumped gas on the starting line when they left !! bastages !

I talked to Curt Johnson a little, one time at a race in k.c., he said the rat heads were flowing well over 500 cfm back then--"years ago", look how much faster they are now !

Aftermarket stuff.
No factory iron 454 head flows 500 cfm, even it did it would be a turd.

 

[famous bob]

Aftermarket stuff.
No factory iron 454 head flows 500 cfm, even it did it would be a turd.

815 horse , 30,000 mile gaurantee , 632 c.i. rat ain`t no turd in my books ! About the same $ as my 505" stroker too, maybe a hair less! MOPAR TO YA !

 

[Oldschool]

815 horse , 30,000 mile gaurantee , 632 c.i. rat ain`t no turd in my books ! About the same $ as my 505" stroker too, maybe a hair less! MOPAR TO YA !

I am making 850 to the flywheel on my 572" Hemi. Easy to make those numbers with the Hemi. Granted, I have aftermarket stuff, but nothing extravagant. Once you overcome buying the base engine itself, the money for mods isn't THAT much different than modding a wedge or BBC I love the 340's, the Big Blocks and the Hemi's. I have driven all kinds of muscle cars over the years and it has been my experience that Mopars make great power compared to anything else that is out there....