Pitman arm is hitting tortion bar! Help?

[jerry6]

X2. Jerry6 posted about the wonderful ground clearance in the thread I posted.

To save time I will repost it again.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=117019&page=5

Well so far 8,000 miles and no major hits . Make it down my driveway without hitting , hookers hit no matter how careful I was . It did scrape on a LARGE wide speed bump , but no dent in pipe . The pipe hangs about 1/2" below transmission pan .
And it did scrape on the road on a huge dip with 4 people in the car , not sure it was pipes or muffler that hit , but each of us weighs over 240 lbs(all over 6'3" ) so the car was sitting low ! Close or over the GVR limit of the car

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

The only shitty part is i have to take it to a shop and have them fabricate me some pipes to go down to my exhaust from the headers :/

Small loss to have something that will allow you to have the car at a decent height and give clearance. If the money isn't there you can go back and do it later. Just think about the extra work if you have the money and don't fix it now. I think when you get this car back together you will still have issues with the original headers in more ways than one. Those headers could have caused all the damage you are repairing now from the over pressure applied to the torsion bars so you might be doing it all over again.

 

[73moparman]

It scares me that no one can figure out this problem :/

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

It scares me that no one can figure out this problem :/

I think you have located the problem. The issue is to repair it and not have it repeated. That is why I would locate GOOD a V8 K-Frame and start putting things back together. I know that your K-Frame could be welded and it might work. Myself, I have a buddy that owns a company that builds scales for loaded semi trucks to weigh on. He is a certified oil feild pipeline welder and I still wouldn't use that K-Frame if he welded it. That is my opinion because I would worry about if the hole was welded where it needed to be and if there was metal fatigue or a twist in the K-Frame.

 

[autoxcuda]

It scares me that no one can figure out this problem :/

You have to be involved too. It's tough doing this without seeing the car in person. One thing at a time. And you have found things. Just keep going.

Have you measured from the end of your centerlink to the frame with your steering box, pitman, and idler arm in? You need to establish that your center link is in the right spot up and down.

But when you found the busted K-member and shot lower control arm bushing that's huge. I've broken one before too. The lower control arm moves all over the place. Have that welded up or replaced.

Did you check the other side yet?

In you picture of the steering box mount on the k-member, there looks to be a vertical scratch just above the lower control arm hole. Check if it's a scratch or crack.

Did you look behind the two inner steering box nuts to see if they are welded in good and don't have partial weld breaks. Tough to spot, but clean the inside good and look with a flashlight.

 

[autoxcuda]

I think you have located the problem. The issue is to repair it and not have it repeated. That is why I would locate GOOD a V8 K-Frame and start putting things back together. I know that your K-Frame could be welded and it might work. Myself, I have a buddy that owns a company that builds scales for loaded semi trucks to weigh on. He is a certified oil feild pipeline welder and I still wouldn't use that K-Frame if he welded it. That is my opinion because I would worry about if the hole was welded where it needed to be and if there was metal fatigue or a twist in the K-Frame.

If you get a good looking used K-member, a lot of people re-weld that area anyway. Factory weld quality there was not the best.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yeah. These online diagnostics are a *****. lol

 

[73moparman]

You have to be involved too. It's tough doing this without seeing the car in person. One thing at a time. And you have found things. Just keep going.

Have you measured from the end of your centerlink to the frame with your steering box, pitman, and idler arm in? You need to establish that your center link is in the right spot up and down.

But when you found the busted K-member and shot lower control arm bushing that's huge. I've broken one before too. The lower control arm moves all over the place. Have that welded up or replaced.

Did you check the other side yet?

In you picture of the steering box mount on the k-member, there looks to be a vertical scratch just above the lower control arm hole. Check if it's a scratch or crack.

Did you look behind the two inner steering box nuts to see if they are welded in good and don't have partial weld breaks. Tough to spot, but clean the inside good and look with a flashlight.

I know im trying to get as many pics and tell everybody what im doing everyday but right now im kind of stuck because im not sure what to do next. I have the power steering pump out the drivers side lower control arm off, drivers side tortion bar out, i mean everything on the drivers side is dissasembled. Sure the lower control arm bushing was shot and the k member was busted in that spot but that is just because the drivers side had no travel and i drove it a lot with it being that way and it just busted loose everything. The passenger side is perfect..everything looks great on that side its just the drivers side that has all the issues.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Alright thank you for helping me. Im 20 years old and cant figure out a thing..it seems like i have tried everything.

Now give yourself some credit. You have came a long ways on working and posting pictures of this thing. You will overcome this thing. Work off of the KISS program, (Keep It Simple Stupid). I learned that a long time ago from a retired Navy electrician and still today I use it. One bite at a time and just keep plugging away at it. No matter what the first step is to weld or replace that K-Frame and that is one thing we all agree on. Measure out all of your parts from the fantastic pictures and information that autoxcuda posted for you.

 

[73moparman]

Now give yourself some credit. You have came a long ways on working and posting pictures of this thing. You will overcome this thing. Work off of the KISS program, (Keep It Simple Stupid). I learned that a long time ago from a retired Navy electrician and still today I use it. One bite at a time and just keep plugging away at it. No matter what the first step is to weld or replace that K-Frame and that is one thing we all agree on. Measure out all of your parts from the fantastic pictures and information that autoxcuda posted for you.

Yeah im trying to..i already measured some of my parts and they are they same but i cant get any good measurments until i get it all put back together..

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

I know im trying to get as many pics and tell everybody what im doing everyday but right now im kind of stuck because im not sure what to do next. I have the power steering pump out the drivers side lower control arm off, drivers side tortion bar out, i mean everything on the drivers side is dissasembled. Sure the lower control arm bushing was shot and the k member was busted in that spot but that is just because the drivers side had no travel and i drove it a lot with it being that way and it just busted loose everything. The passenger side is perfect..everything looks great on that side its just the drivers side that has all the issues.

I do really think this is a result of the headers you are running. Torsion bars tensioned as far as they would go was putting a lot of stress on all the parts with every bump you hit in the road. The weak spot was that bushing. When it was damaged to where it no longer could take it then the K-Frame had to take it all instead of just part of it.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Yeah im trying to..i already measured some of my parts and they are they same but i cant get any good measurments until i get it all put back together..

Figure out what you are going to do about the K-Frame first. You have no other choice on this one. Until you accpmplish this There is no need hanging parts on it because you can't get accurate measurements from it now.

 

[73moparman]

I do really think this is a result of the headers you are running. Torsion bars tensioned as far as they would go was putting a lot of stress on all the parts with every bump you hit in the road. The weak spot was that bushing. When it was damaged to where it no longer could take it then the K-Frame had to take it all instead of just part of it.

I know for sure it was not the headers..i never bottomed out the headers or anything like that. It probably had a brand new bushing in the lower control arm when i bought the car..then i drove it around like it was with the tortion bars tentioned all the way up and it was just to much stress with no travel..hitting bumps and what not wore out that lower control arm bushing and eventually broke that k member hole away..

 

[jerry6]

You never bottomed out those headers ?? Really , they look like they would bottom on a cockroach crossing the road ! If they didn't bottom then you have no worries about most any other header .

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

I know for sure it was not the headers..i never bottomed out the headers or anything like that. It probably had a brand new bushing in the lower control arm when i bought the car..then i drove it around like it was with the tortion bars tentioned all the way up and it was just to much stress with no travel..hitting bumps and what not wore out that lower control arm bushing and eventually broke that k member hole away..

You missed what I was trying to say. Thanks to the fact that the headers hanging down so low the whole front end was torsioned as far it could go causing parts to fail. If the car was setting at the right height with an exhaust that was up where it should have been the torsion bars wouldn't have been maxed out putting so much tension on everything else.

 

[73moparman]

You missed what I was trying to say. Thanks to the fact that the headers hanging down so low the whole front end was torsioned as far it could go causing parts to fail. If the car was setting at the right height with an exhaust that was up where it should have been the torsion bars wouldn't have been maxed out putting so much tension on everything else.

But it doesnt matter. I cant loosen up the tortion bars any more then they are otherwise my tortion bar would be laying on my tie rod end..or my tie rod end would hit the tortion bar and wouldnt be able to steer the car..

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

But it doesnt matter. I cant loosen up the tortion bars any more then they are otherwise my tortion bar would be laying on my tie rod end..or my tie rod end would hit the tortion bar and wouldnt be able to steer the car..

The LCA bushing being slotted and the K-Frame being busted will definately change the distance between the torsion bar and the tie rod when they are repaired. If you have the correct parts and everything is put back where it belongs you will see changes. Right now what you have is a LCA that is moving around at will instead of being where it should be.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Think about that LCA and the big holes that it is flopping around in. Now what would happen if you put lug nuts on your car two sizes bigger than the studs. The wheel would fall off because there wouldn't be anything holding it on correctly.

 

[73moparman]

Think about that LCA and the big holes that it is flopping around in. Now what would happen if you put lug nuts on your car two sizes bigger than the studs. The wheel would fall off because there wouldn't be anything holding it on correctly.

I hope your right. lol that would be awesome if i put it all back together and its fixed

 

[autoxcuda]

But it doesnt matter. I cant loosen up the tortion bars any more then they are otherwise my tortion bar would be laying on my tie rod end..or my tie rod end would hit the tortion bar and wouldnt be able to steer the car..

I think that was a function of your busted K-member. If the K-member was not busted the torsion bar do not move. All it does is twists. It's supposed to be solid on both ends. The frame side is fixed the K-member side moves around the solid pin that comes out of the k-member (yours was not soild=broke).

Just mock up your steering box, pitman, idler and get the measurement from the frame to the centerlink. Don't need to final tighten everthing up. You don't need the Torsion bars, lower control arm or anything else.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

I hope your right. lol that would be awesome if i put it all back together and its fixed

I never said it will be fixed at that point. That is just another step in getting it fixed. If it does fix the torsion bar - tie rod issue you will still have a tie rod - header issue as far as I can tell. Nothing you are doing will affect the position of the headers or the steering gear box locations.

I don't think your headers were manufactured to fit your car or they wouldn't hang that low and someone used what ever they had laying around.

 

[FISHBREATH]

I have been watching this thread with interest. There are a lot of good responses here, but it is very difficult to diagnose from a distance.

It seems that the main problem is evidenced by steering linkage striking the torsion bar and headers. It is a problem of two objects trying to occupy the same space.

The steering linkage was designed to operate in a plane, i.e. the moving parts move in arcs in a plane. Something has obviously shifted the plane of movement of the linkage.

There has been note made of physical problems with the K-frame. There could also be problems with the front sub frames and LCAs.

I believe that the car body needs to be checked for "trueness." That could be done on a body shop frame machine or you could get a rough idea with jackstands, shims, and bubble levels in your garage.

Something is obviously tweaked. Gotta start with the basics.

 

[73moparman]

I have been watching this thread with interest. There are a lot of good responses here, but it is very difficult to diagnose from a distance.

It seems that the main problem is evidenced by steering linkage striking the torsion bar and headers. It is a problem of two objects trying to occupy the same space.

The steering linkage was designed to operate in a plane, i.e. the moving parts move in arcs in a plane. Something has obviously shifted the plane of movement of the linkage.

There has been note made of physical problems with the K-frame. There could also be problems with the front sub frames and LCAs.

I believe that the car body needs to be checked for "trueness." That could be done on a body shop frame machine or you could get a rough idea with jackstands, shims, and bubble levels in your garage.

Something is obviously tweaked. Gotta start with the basics.

Thanks for the response. Im just trying to go one step at a time and figure stuff out the best i can...

 

[73moparman]

Just a little update..got the lca bushing in the lca and ready to be put back in the car as soon as i can get that k frame welded up. I have a moog k7076 pitman arm coming tomorrow morning from a local parts shop. and i have that mopar performance chassis book coming one of these days then i can start reassembling it. I have been really searching and looking around on the internet about why im having this problem and ran across another thread about a guy that was having the same problem with his 73 challenger. He said he shimmed the top two bolts on the steering box and had to go through three different pitman arms before he got it to work..so i guess ill keep my fingers crossed and see how it goes back together . Thanks for everyones opinions and suggestions again!!

 

[green1]

This was on my mind, so I went out and looked at my 70 Duster. Pitman and tie rod nuts are up, and I'm the only one to work on it since new. If your drag is dropped, to clear the pan; wrong link. Check for that. I didn't (you couldn't) from the pic, figure out why the pittman stud was so far out of the link. I think the taper wrong; flip (or get correct one) the link, pittmann will work, the tie rod nuts will be pointed up...

Then figure the idler.